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Delta-8 THC, a legal weed alternative that gets people high

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  • Delta-8 THC, a legal weed alternative that gets people high

    So I recently got asked by a friend what I thought about the fact that Delta-8 THC is legal and I was like "delta what?". So I did some research and apparently (with the exception a handful of states which have banned it outright), it is a 100% federally legal analogue of D9 THC (the still federally illegal kind). The 2018 federal Farm Bill made ALL hemp extracts and derivatives, salts, isomers, etc... of hemp legal, EXCEPT for those with D9 THC at concentrations over .3%. My state has a similar law, so it's legal here. Shops all over the state (and my town) are openly selling it and have bright neon signs advertising it. Apparently it's "marijuana lite", and has about 75% of the potency of D9 THC. I put the word out to my agency (nobody had heard of it) and the agency head dug into it and basically said "yes, it's legal, but no the troops can't use it" because a urinalysis can't distinguish between metabolites of D8 and D9 THC. I don't know how that would hold up in court, although I'm certainly not going to be the one to put it to the test. Has anybody else heard of it, or dealt with it in a LE capacity?
    Be dangerous, and unpredictable... and make a lot of noise. - John Bush, Anthrax

  • #2
    Dope laws often lag behind dope.

    But whatever it is, the dope laws will catch up with it...

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Aidokea View Post
      Dope laws often lag behind dope.

      But whatever it is, the dope laws will catch up with it...
      After people start dying…

      Comment


      • #4
        I'd never heard of it so...

        https://www.popsci.com/science/delta-8-thc/

        Apparently, it's pot farmers working a loophole in the law. Delta-8 is produced from hemp, that extracts legal CBD, that then extracts Delta-8 (that basically has all of the same effects as normal...or Delta-9...THC). The laws are likely to catch up soon enough...much like how the laws lagged behind "bath salts" and "synthetic marijuana" a few years back.
        "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
        -Friedrich Nietzsche

        Comment


        • Aidokea
          Aidokea commented
          Editing a comment
          Bingo, Bing_Oh...

      • #5
        I'd love some kind of legal cannabinoid that doesn't have any THC that takes away knee pain but won't get me fired on a drug test.

        Comment


        • #6
          Originally posted by Bing_Oh View Post
          I'd never heard of it so...

          https://www.popsci.com/science/delta-8-thc/

          Apparently, it's pot farmers working a loophole in the law. Delta-8 is produced from hemp, that extracts legal CBD, that then extracts Delta-8 (that basically has all of the same effects as normal...or Delta-9...THC). The laws are likely to catch up soon enough...much like how the laws lagged behind "bath salts" and "synthetic marijuana" a few years back.
          The difference though is that bath salts are 100% lab created, D8 is a naturally occurring compound. Laws are catching up, some states have banned it, others are regulating it but allowing it to stay legal. Texas and Michigan come to mind. Interestingly the marijuana lobby in weed-legal states is fighting to ban it because they don't want the competition cutting into their sales, which it has. The selling point of D8 is that it gives the user a less powerful psychoactive experience than D9 (and comes without the paranoia that D9 gives). Currently D8 is legal at the federal level, although the DEA has tried to (surprise) step outside of it's authority and issue an "interim final rule" that clearly contradicts the plain language of the Farm Bill, which took any and all hemp derivatives outside of the DEA's purview. Even the authors of the Farm Bill have said in a letter to the AG that they intended all cannabinoids other than D9 THC to be legal. Hemp farmers are getting smarter though and starting to extract D8 from hemp without the chemical conversion process that makes D8 out of CBD, which was one of the DEA's arguments to try to sidestep the clear language of the Bill and decree something illegal that Congress expressly legalized. I still can't believe that in 2021, as a nation, we're still trying to justify the government's heavy hand being involved in people taking a substance that occurs naturally in plants. I also find it funny that democrats, who are constantly whining and carping about the "failure of the war on drugs" don't use their majority to end the federal prohibition on marijuana. FWIW, I recognize that abuse of THC (in whatever variant) has it's own issues, but that's life in a free society.
          Last edited by Georgetime; 07-19-2021, 07:43 AM.
          Be dangerous, and unpredictable... and make a lot of noise. - John Bush, Anthrax

          Comment


          • Aidokea
            Aidokea commented
            Editing a comment
            Paragraphs, dude...paragraphs...

        • #7
          Originally posted by SHU View Post
          I'd love some kind of legal cannabinoid that doesn't have any THC that takes away knee pain but won't get me fired on a drug test.
          Yeah, CBD was supposed to be that miracle, but it was snake oil. I tried it once and it did nothing for me when I injured my elbow in BJJ. That is another reason D8 is a big deal now, because the bottom fell out of the market for CBD and farmers were seeing tons of the crop just rotting away, now they have something they can do with it by turning it into D8 (which is flying off shelves).
          Be dangerous, and unpredictable... and make a lot of noise. - John Bush, Anthrax

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          • #8
            Kratom is another interesting one. It's almost as addictive as opioids, but is currently legal federally and in most states.

            Comment


            • #9
              I hadn't heard of D-8. Usually K-2, spice, Kratom, synthetic marijuana are tough to test for because the formulation is always changing. Some of the field UA kits will detect it, but national labs have trouble confirming the results. My offenders constantly have problems with it. People think it's some safer, trouble-free way to get high. Possibly the changing formulation is why it's been hard to ban at the federal level too.

              Comment


              • #10
                Originally posted by CCCSD View Post

                After people start dying…
                Don't tease me.

                I've always enjoyed having the opportunity to document an offender's last case...

                Comment


                • #11
                  I just heard of D8, but not through my normal sources.

                  My wife's niece recently moved to our (no legal weed) state from CA. Hanging out with the in-laws, we met her boyfriend, who's a legal weed advocate. In a moment of weakness (probably induced by one too many IPAs), I fell into the 'as a cop, how do you feel about legalizing marijuana?' trap. About 2 sentences into my response, the BF held court on D8, why it was legal, how I would be committing a civil rights violation for arresting/citing anyone for its possession, etc., etc., etc.

                  I appreciate this topic, as it's provided me with much more useful information than I got from Stoner Joe.

                  Comment


                  • #12
                    Originally posted by orangebottle View Post
                    My wife's niece recently moved to our (no legal weed) state from CA. Hanging out with the in-laws, we met her boyfriend, who's a [doper].
                    Fixed...

                    Comment


                    • #13
                      Originally posted by orangebottle View Post
                      I just heard of D8, but not through my normal sources.

                      My wife's niece recently moved to our (no legal weed) state from CA. Hanging out with the in-laws, we met her boyfriend, who's a legal weed advocate. In a moment of weakness (probably induced by one too many IPAs), I fell into the 'as a cop, how do you feel about legalizing marijuana?' trap. About 2 sentences into my response, the BF held court on D8, why it was legal, how I would be committing a civil rights violation for arresting/citing anyone for its possession, etc., etc., etc.

                      I appreciate this topic, as it's provided me with much more useful information than I got from Stoner Joe.
                      This is one of the many reasons I brought it up with my boss, because I don't want some road officer who has never heard of it (like none of us had) to see the term "THC" on the packaging and arrest someone for possessing a legal product. D8 is legal in the majority of states and federally. I agree with treating THC of any variety like alcohol: Subject to age restrictions and quality controls. While I am certainly no fan of the stoner "culture" or scene, I am also not a fan of the government being in the business of locking people up who want to peacefully use a natural substance to feel good under the proper circumstances (again, think "alcohol"). My agency has had to pare back our restrictions on hiring people who have marijuana use to keep up with the changing times, as we were losing too many otherwise qualified candidates for entry level positions. We went from not hiring anybody who has used in the past five years, to three years, down to six months. So if I were to go into a store on Friday night, buy this 100% legal product and use it, showing no level of impairment by Monday morning: despite being on the job for almost 20 years at my current agency, collecting numerous accolades and putting away some real bad people, implementing some quality initiatives and generally dedicating more of my life to the mission of the department than is probably reasonable, I'd get fired. Who could replace me? Somebody with no LE experience who went and bought the illegal stuff off Lil T-spoon on the corner six months and one day ago. The "logic" of it all boggles the mind.
                      Last edited by Georgetime; 07-21-2021, 01:53 PM.
                      Be dangerous, and unpredictable... and make a lot of noise. - John Bush, Anthrax

                      Comment


                      • #14
                        Originally posted by Georgetime View Post

                        This is one of the many reasons I brought it up with my boss, because I don't want some road officer who has never heard of it (like none of us had) to see the term "THC" on the packaging and arrest someone for possessing a legal product. D8 is legal in the majority of states and federally.
                        That's what you say your real concern is, but then you go on with this wall of text that sounds just like any other Jeff Spicoli type attempting to justify drug use:

                        I agree with treating THC of any variety like alcohol: Subject to age restrictions and quality controls. While I am certainly no fan of the stoner "culture" or scene, I am also not a fan of the government being in the business of locking people up who want to peacefully use a natural substance to feel good under the proper circumstances (again, think "alcohol"). My agency has had to pare back our restrictions on hiring people who have marijuana use to keep up with the changing times, as we were losing too many otherwise qualified candidates for entry level positions. We went from not hiring anybody who has used in the past five years, to three years, down to six months. So if I were to go into a store on Friday night, buy this 100% legal product and use it, showing no level of impairment by Monday morning: despite being on the job for almost 20 years at my current agency, collecting numerous accolades and putting away some real bad people, implementing some quality initiatives and generally dedicating more of my life to the mission of the department than is probably reasonable, I'd get fired. Who could replace me? Somebody with no LE experience who went and bought the illegal stuff off Lil T-spoon on the corner six months and one day ago. The "logic" of it all boggles the mind.
                        I love you like the brother that you are, but I disagree.

                        Alcohol is legal.

                        This "D8" that you speak of, is simply an attempt to make an end run around existing drug laws.

                        Comment


                        • #15
                          Originally posted by Aidokea View Post

                          I love you like the brother that you are, but I disagree.
                          Fair enough. And, likewise.

                          Alcohol is legal.
                          This is precisely my point: In the vast majority of states, D8 is as legal as alcohol. You cannot arrest someone for possessing it in a state that has not specifically outlawed it. I think it's only 11 states who have done so, at this point. Additionally, in states where this product is legal, it has effectively rendered the standard urinalysis useless as a determinant as a violation of employers' drug policy, because it doesn't distinguish metabolites from D8 or D9. It will look the same. An employer can no longer rely on a typical urinalysis as a prima facie that someone used an illegal drug, they would have to prove that an employee used the still-federally-illegal D9. If a test designed to test the use of illicit drugs will have a positive result after the use of a LEGAL substance, any agency in a D8 legal state should have a plan for addressing it, unless they are a Sheriff obviously, then they can do whatever they want. My boss has chosen to say "I will fire the employee regardless and take the chance on getting sued and make the fired employee argue the legality". He will then accept someone who used the illegal (state and federal here) marijuana 6 months and one day prior if they otherwise are a good candidate for hire. Also, hearing about D8 for the first time when a rookie officer makes a bad arrest for possessing a legal product is not a good look. Full disclosure: Would I like to try it? Sure. But could I make an argument for why officers should be prevented? I could. I'm not here to do either one, rather to say it's better to recognize the issues and figure out a solution before it becomes an issue.

                          This "D8" that you speak of, is simply an attempt to make an end run around existing drug laws.
                          D8 is a federally legal substance and, for now, in most states. That is based on the plain language of the federal law, which made ALL cannabinoids other than D9 THC in concentrations higher than .3%. legal. It also took DEA completely out of the loop on anything to do with hemp, or any extracts, salts, isomers, etc. that come from hemp. The law is plain and unambiguous. Whether it remains that way remains to be seen. I seriously doubt in the current climate that Congress is going to go back and carve out from "ALL" cannabinoids a prohibition for specific cannabinoids that give people a high every time the hemp industry, chemists or other motivated parties figure out how to make a derivative that makes people feel good. Oh, and yes, current drug laws ARE stupid, but that's not really the argument I'm here to make.
                          Last edited by Georgetime; 07-23-2021, 02:04 PM.
                          Be dangerous, and unpredictable... and make a lot of noise. - John Bush, Anthrax

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