VA cop tickets Medal of Honor recipent

[The Centurion]

Centurion, I didn't need any replies, and had it not been for the "I hate to stereotype" comment, I probably wouldn't have given your post a second look.... or comment. Had I made such an outright statement stereotyping northern cops as you did, I would have been roasted no doubt. I did describe how I might would look at it differently, but in actual practice, I don't see much difference. It just irks me when someone tries to cast southern officers in a negative light for simply doing their job or looking at things in a different light.

As to your giving a free pass on violations, that's fine, I do it to when called for.

The phrase "but short of a serious felony committed in my presence I'm not citing a person who ... etc. " is pretty definative, how is one to knowm that it's not what you meant to say?

I don't know where you are from, just what was in your profile and you were throwing off on southern LEOs in general as if it was somewhere else and I was just making it clear that it includes where you say you are at, that's all.


Guess maybe I touched a nerve there ... sorry 'bout that. Boy isn't a bad word down this way, it's sort of a term one uses for those whom they like or have no particular dislike for, also used in "Good ole boy".

Have a nice.....

Thanks for being civil.

That said, I thought I couched my stereotype with some room for error by saying both that it is a stereotype and that it "seems" that southern cops may_____. Let's face it, some stereotypes have some basis in fact.

Anyway, I've spent much time in the south and love the south and its generally good-natured, down-to-earth environment. It just SEEMS that some southern cops do have a different way of dealing with other cops. Its not what I'm used to. I don't "expect" courtesy and I don't recklessly go around violating laws because I have a badge. But I've stated my reasons above. The phrase short of a serious felony was made because there are varying degrees of felonies. For example, returning a rental vehicle late is a felony. It was just a phrase used so that I could make the point that I am not going to give passes on serious offenses. It didnt work. Oh well.

But these kinds locality differences do interest me and I strive to understand them. So maybe you can shed some light on this in a different way other than implying that southern cops have more respect for the law than northerners? I'd like to hear what you have to say.

The other thing that goes along with this is that police unions don't seem to be as tight in the south and, as such, pay/benefits don't seem to be as good, generally speaking that is. So I'm wondering if southern cops are just not as "tight" and loyal to one another as counterparts in the north? Or is it something else?

Let me say that I'm generally Independent/Republican these days and don't completely support the entire union agenda (especially teachers unions) but I believe them to be important in the public sector generally because of incompetent management. I also think they are very important in police work because of the unique nature of our jobs.

Thoughts?> By the way, I apologize if I offended you by my comment on southerners

[t150vsuptpr]

Not offended at all.

But these kinds locality differences do interest me and I strive to understand them. So maybe you can shed some light on this in a different way other than implying that southern cops have more respect for the law than northerners? I'd like to hear what you have to say.

Well, like I said " but (tit for tat) my opinion might be that ...etc ..."

In actual practice, and after having done this job for right at 30 years here, I am firmly convinced that you will find a signifgant percentage of officers in both the North and South on both sides of this fence.

I recall one fellow I stopped maybe 20 years ago as if it were yesterday, I stopped him at some speed while on a selective enforcement project and wrote the cite and he let me explain it and signed it without any denials or requests or excuses. After I handed him his copy and asked him, as I always do, "to please have a safe trip", as I turned to walk away, he called out to me. I returned to his door and he then, pulled his badge and ID case and thanked me for being so polite. Out of curriosity, I asked why he waited to show me the creds. He explained that he lived and worked a "bedroom" community of a large city and that he constantly recieved complaints from the people in his town about the speeds and other driving of what often turned out to be off duty officers living there and working in the larger city, he explained that often when he or one of his officers tried to stop a car it would simply lead them to the driveway of one of these off duty bigger city guys and that some would actually dare the officer to write a cite. It was almost as if he was talking about "Copland". He said he didn't want be seen that way but still wanted to let me know he was law enforcement and appreciated my job.

I once stopped a Florida trooper in a Cadilac with family who didn't tell me he was LEO because "it shouldn't matter" as he said.

I once had a Tenn. officer stop beside me in a work zone to tell me how he had been wronged by one of my coworkers in another county some distance away for going "70 something" in a 45 zone on Rt 20 near Orange. That's a crooked narrow road with dropping steep shoulders, and knowing the road I told him he was lucky the trooper dropped it to a non reckless charge. He expected me to maybe side with him instead? He was so worked up that I swear he was in tears.

I once had a guy from a Colorado agency come through radar at well over 100 and who then made an ill fated attempt to get far enough lead and duck off on me, but when I come within sight of that straight and the exit ramp, I knew he took the exit because I couldn't see him on the highway where he should have been. Found him "hiding" at the top of the on ramp at the end of a pair of long skids across the crossing roadway where he slid through the stop sign from the exit ramp, over against a bank. No wrecker needed but it was a 10-50 and so we spent some time together. He cried fowl for not getting any PC and then made a big complaint on me after court ... and I went easy on him.

In 1981 after just transferring to a new division, I stopped a fellow who simply gave me his OL and reg. He admitted his violation and lack of attention before I could get it out ... and simply sat there waiting for me to "do my thing". It was only later when I met him at firearms recirt that I realised what he was, and he is a great friend to this day.

I recall this one guy that I stopped from a northern state for a high speed and using a radar detector, whom simply said "How about my badge?" when I asked for a driver's license and registration. He got really irate.

I can go on and on, but suffice to say I have seen them from all over the place and with attitudes that fall all over the issue. I know there are guys in my department that look at it differently than I and you. I also know that here locally, officers and officer's families do obey the laws for the most part, and it's mighty rare to catch one otherwise when off duty.

As to why you percieve a difference, I can't account for it except to speculate that perhaps you look forit or are just sensative to it.

As stated many times, I don't care what one's attitude is ...
... but when one takes the chance, when one plays the game, they hand the decision to the officer on duty who may catch them ...
... and it is my firmly felt conviction that one should just "man up" and accept that which he has gambled on.

As to politics, in the last 30 years, I've voted 100% Republican on the national level (some few times Democrat on the state and local ballot), even when I wasn't entirely happy with the platform as it has always seemd to be the better of the two viable choices. A vote for anything else in the current climate is a vote for a Democrat .... and today's Democrat is not the Democrat of JFK's erra (and I might say the same for the Republican party). I don't see a change looming anytime too soon.

About unions and pay .... it also don't costs as much to live in most parts of the south and I will admit that my view of unions has probably been negatively influenced by working long stretches in the coal fields in strike duty back in 1981 and 1989. I'll never pay union dues or work a union shop, and I doubt that I'll ever work under a union banner in LE either.

And, I'll even admit that perhaps, just perhaps mind you .... maybe I was a bit over the top in my post up above. I could have perhaps, in retrospect, worded it some better and some shorter.

Later ....

[NorwichGrad05]

I don't even know why this surprises anyone...until the end of time, we will discuss this subject in this specific state! It is true, "when in rome, do as the romans do"..everyone knows going through Virginia just play the game because they don't respect other cops..that's the way it is. They read this, and they damn well know who we're talking about on a specific summons..obviously they don't care, because they're not stopping anytime soon.

Lets face it boys...just a fact of life, your shield means nothing in VA. To the few VA cops that do respect it, thanks...and I know you look like the black sheep..but us out-of-town folk respect you..and when you come to our city, expect that we will treat you as one of our own..and extend every courtesy to you.

[Bearcat357]

I don't even know why this surprises anyone...until the end of time, we will discuss this subject in this specific state! It is true, "when in rome, do as the romans do"..everyone knows going through Virginia just play the game because they don't respect other cops..that's the way it is. They read this, and they damn well know who we're talking about on a specific summons..obviously they don't care, because they're not stopping anytime soon.

Lets face it boys...just a fact of life, your shield means nothing in VA. To the few VA cops that do respect it, thanks...and I know you look like the black sheep..but us out-of-town folk respect you..and when you come to our city, expect that we will treat you as one of our own..and extend every courtesy to you.

What's so hard with driving the speed limit....?

[t150vsuptpr]

I don't even know why this surprises anyone...until the end of time, we will discuss this subject in this specific state! It is true, "when in rome, do as the romans do"..everyone knows going through Virginia just play the game because they don't respect other cops..that's the way it is. They read this, and they damn well know who we're talking about on a specific summons..obviously they don't care, because they're not stopping anytime soon.

Lets face it boys...just a fact of life, your shield means nothing in VA. To the few VA cops that do respect it, thanks...and I know you look like the black sheep..but us out-of-town folk respect you..and when you come to our city, expect that we will treat you as one of our own..and extend every courtesy to you.

What's so hard with driving the speed limit....?

I'ld settle for "just close" to it, like most of the other traffic.

[NorwichGrad05]

What's so hard with driving the speed limit....?

Nothing wrong with driving the speed limit, but I hate being in a lane and have someone going less than the speed limit...so 10 over isn't that serious..if you need a summons/citation or a collar (that's an arrest for non-NYPD folk ...it ain't that hard to get..the guy that's going 100 in a 55, or the guy going in and out of lanes and cutting folks off..nail that jerk...

[Bearcat357]

Nothing wrong with driving the speed limit, but I hate being in a lane and have someone going less than the speed limit...so 10 over isn't that serious..if you need a summons/citation or a collar (that's an arrest for non-NYPD folk ...it ain't that hard to get..the guy that's going 100 in a 55, or the guy going in and out of lanes and cutting folks off..nail that jerk...

Sorry....I'm a Fed.....and I haven't done a T/S in over 3 years......

As t150vsuptpr stated.....have your buddies try to at least get near the speed limit.....and they probably won't jack with you.....

The fastest I drive is about 10 over....and that's usually to keep up with the flow of traffic and I have never been stopped for speeding......

I have been stopped a time or two for driving like an idiot as I was lost.....and once I had a conversation with the friendly (1) Arlington County, (1) Fairfax County, and the (1) DC Officer.....all ended well.....

[The Centurion]

Not offended at all.


Well, like I said " but (tit for tat) my opinion might be that ...etc ..."

In actual practice, and after having done this job for right at 30 years here, I am firmly convinced that you will find a signifgant percentage of officers in both the North and South on both sides of this fence.

I recall one fellow I stopped maybe 20 years ago as if it were yesterday, I stopped him at some speed while on a selective enforcement project and wrote the cite and he let me explain it and signed it without any denials or requests or excuses. After I handed him his copy and asked him, as I always do, "to please have a safe trip", as I turned to walk away, he called out to me. I returned to his door and he then, pulled his badge and ID case and thanked me for being so polite. Out of curriosity, I asked why he waited to show me the creds. He explained that he lived and worked a "bedroom" community of a large city and that he constantly recieved complaints from the people in his town about the speeds and other driving of what often turned out to be off duty officers living there and working in the larger city, he explained that often when he or one of his officers tried to stop a car it would simply lead them to the driveway of one of these off duty bigger city guys and that some would actually dare the officer to write a cite. It was almost as if he was talking about "Copland". He said he didn't want be seen that way but still wanted to let me know he was law enforcement and appreciated my job.

I once stopped a Florida trooper in a Cadilac with family who didn't tell me he was LEO because "it shouldn't matter" as he said.

I once had a Tenn. officer stop beside me in a work zone to tell me how he had been wronged by one of my coworkers in another county some distance away for going "70 something" in a 45 zone on Rt 20 near Orange. That's a crooked narrow road with dropping steep shoulders, and knowing the road I told him he was lucky the trooper dropped it to a non reckless charge. He expected me to maybe side with him instead? He was so worked up that I swear he was in tears.

I once had a guy from a Colorado agency come through radar at well over 100 and who then made an ill fated attempt to get far enough lead and duck off on me, but when I come within sight of that straight and the exit ramp, I knew he took the exit because I couldn't see him on the highway where he should have been. Found him "hiding" at the top of the on ramp at the end of a pair of long skids across the crossing roadway where he slid through the stop sign from the exit ramp, over against a bank. No wrecker needed but it was a 10-50 and so we spent some time together. He cried fowl for not getting any PC and then made a big complaint on me after court ... and I went easy on him.

In 1981 after just transferring to a new division, I stopped a fellow who simply gave me his OL and reg. He admitted his violation and lack of attention before I could get it out ... and simply sat there waiting for me to "do my thing". It was only later when I met him at firearms recirt that I realised what he was, and he is a great friend to this day.

I recall this one guy that I stopped from a northern state for a high speed and using a radar detector, whom simply said "How about my badge?" when I asked for a driver's license and registration. He got really irate.

I can go on and on, but suffice to say I have seen them from all over the place and with attitudes that fall all over the issue. I know there are guys in my department that look at it differently than I and you. I also know that here locally, officers and officer's families do obey the laws for the most part, and it's mighty rare to catch one otherwise when off duty.

As to why you percieve a difference, I can't account for it except to speculate that perhaps you look forit or are just sensative to it.

As stated many times, I don't care what one's attitude is ...
... but when one takes the chance, when one plays the game, they hand the decision to the officer on duty who may catch them ...
... and it is my firmly felt conviction that one should just "man up" and accept that which he has gambled on.

As to politics, in the last 30 years, I've voted 100% Republican on the national level (some few times Democrat on the state and local ballot), even when I wasn't entirely happy with the platform as it has always seemd to be the better of the two viable choices. A vote for anything else in the current climate is a vote for a Democrat .... and today's Democrat is not the Democrat of JFK's erra (and I might say the same for the Republican party). I don't see a change looming anytime too soon.

About unions and pay .... it also don't costs as much to live in most parts of the south and I will admit that my view of unions has probably been negatively influenced by working long stretches in the coal fields in strike duty back in 1981 and 1989. I'll never pay union dues or work a union shop, and I doubt that I'll ever work under a union banner in LE either.

And, I'll even admit that perhaps, just perhaps mind you .... maybe I was a bit over the top in my post up above. I could have perhaps, in retrospect, worded it some better and some shorter.

Later ....

Thanks for the reply. I've enjoyed reading the posts on this board.

I'm closing this account though because of the manner in which the Kremlin who run it are quick to close threads at the fist sign of spirited debate. I sent a PM to the Admn asking a question and he jumped down my throat as if he were a DI at Pariss Island. Also gotta love the girly little tattletales here who come and start____and then beat feet to the teacher when someone stand up to them.

I'll stick with my other boards where they let free speech carry on unless it gets real ugly and expletives come to play. Have a good one.

[Nightshift va]

Are You Really A Cop?

Someone please tell me it ain't so!

What is being circulated

http://forums.military.com/eve/forum.../4230019921001

"Doesn't mean a thing!"

Spoken by Virginia Law Enforcement Officer Jim McClellan (Badge #5011) upon noticing the distinctive Medal of Honor license plate on the vehicle of World War II hero Frank Currey. Officer McClellan had just pulled over the 82-year-old hero in what one person (also LEA) described as a speed trap near Petersburg, VA. According that same report:

"I would of at least expected a little courtesy on Memorial Day Weekend, but I guess not. I guess the Officer was a real ***, and when Mr. Currey asked him if he saw the plate and knew what it meant, the Officer replied, 'Doesn't mean a thing.' I made a few calls, apparently this Officer does does not have the greatest reputation."


Court Details

http://208.210.219.132/vadistrict/controller?action=CaseNumberSearch&startInput=&endInput=&input=[home]I[tab][enter]

Petersburg General District (Prepayable)
Case Details

Case Number: GT07008969-00 File Date: 05/29/07 Complainant: MCCLELLAN, J. H.; OFF. Locality: PETERSBURG
Defendant: CURREY, FRANCIS S. Defense Attorney:
City/State Address: BONNEAU, SC 29431
Sex: Male Race: White Caucasian (Non-Hispanic) DOB: 06/29/****
Charge: 71/55 SPEEDING Code Section: G.46.2-870 Case Type: Infraction Class:
Amended Charge: Amended Code Section: Amended Case Type:
Offense Date: 05/26/07 Arrest Date: 00000

Hearings
Number Date Time Result Hearing Type Courtroom Plea Min Continuance Code
01 06/14/07 0200PM Waived 000
02 0000 M 000
03 0000 M 000

Final Disposition in District Court: Prepaid Fines/Costs Paid: 05/30/07
Sentence Time: Sentence Suspension Time: Operator License Suspension Time:
Fine: $80.00 Cost: $56.00
Operator License Restriction Codes: Restriction Start Date: Restriction End Date:
VASAP:

Currey was a Medal of Honor recipient


http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/mohiia1.htm

CURREY, FRANCIS S.

Rank and organization: Sergeant, U.S. Army, Company K, 120th Infantry, 30th Infantry Division. Place and date: Malmedy, Belgium, 21 December 1944. Entered service at: Hurleyville, N.Y. Birth: Loch Sheldrake, N.Y. G.O. No.: 69, 17 August 1945. Citation: He was an automatic rifleman with the 3d Platoon defending a strong point near Malmedy, Belgium, on 21 December 1944, when the enemy launched a powerful attack. Overrunning tank destroyers and antitank guns located near the strong point, German tanks advanced to the 3d Platoon's position, and, after prolonged fighting, forced the withdrawal of this group to a nearby factory. Sgt. Currey found a bazooka in the building and crossed the street to secure rockets meanwhile enduring intense fire from enemy tanks and hostile infantrymen who had taken up a position at a house a short distance away. In the face of small-arms, machinegun, and artillery fire, he, with a companion, knocked out a tank with 1 shot. Moving to another position, he observed 3 Germans in the doorway of an enemy-held house. He killed or wounded all 3 with his automatic rifle. He emerged from cover and advanced alone to within 50 yards of the house, intent on wrecking it with rockets. Covered by friendly fire, he stood erect, and fired a shot which knocked down half of 1 wall. While in this forward position, he observed 5 Americans who had been pinned down for hours by fire from the house and 3 tanks. Realizing that they could not escape until the enemy tank and infantry guns had been silenced, Sgt. Currey crossed the street to a vehicle, where he procured an armful of antitank grenades. These he launched while under heavy enemy fire, driving the tankmen from the vehicles into the house. He then climbed onto a half-track in full view of the Germans and fired a machinegun at the house. Once again changing his position, he manned another machinegun whose crew had been killed; under his covering fire the 5 soldiers were able to retire to safety. Deprived of tanks and with heavy infantry casualties, the enemy was forced to withdraw. Through his extensive knowledge of weapons and by his heroic and repeated braving of murderous enemy fire, Sgt. Currey was greatly responsible for inflicting heavy losses in men and material on the enemy, for rescuing 5 comrades, 2 of whom were wounded, and for stemming an attack which threatened to flank his battalion's position.

You go into too much detail on this individual Officer in this thread as if there is some other agenda, did he write you a ticket also? You also need to be careful the way you are wording your tread making comments about the officer involved's reputation. First off you were not there. Secondly you didnt even get his first name right. The Officer in question is also a military veteran and I personally know him and if this individual mouthed off to him initially it would explain the summons. I too am a vet and agree of the honor and 'discretion bestowed upon any WWII Vet" as I practice this discretion however how quick eveyone is to jump on this officer when you know if you really work the job there are two sides to every story. This officer was working radar in an area that is heavy in many auto crashes that result in people flying down the road disregarding any speed limit, a few of the crashes in "this" area have been fatalities and call it a speed trap if you want to but I appreciate the officer addressing the major problems on I95 by doing his job and also he is specifically tasked at running radar in that area because he is specifically a traffic unit and he knows his job as well as anyone I know in Police work, and I should know because he was one of my FTO's. All im saying is, there are two sides to every story and if you werent there quit being like every other joe citizen that complains on the police when they get a ticket for violating the speed limit.

[BobDole]

I do not have a problem with NOT citing the MOHR. My problem has to do with the attitude that he is ENTITLED to not get ticketed. If that is HIS attitude, then I would have no issue with someone citing him. If that is the LEO's attitude, then I would hope that what we were talking about is a very minor situation (interstate, little traffic, etc).

I disagree. I think the man is entitled to not get a ticket. He helped entitle us to remain free and be able to openly discuss disagreements by doing something so fricking crazy to get the MOH. Unless he beat his wife or commited a felony. Then it's sorry pop's off with ya.

[Woofdog]

Case by case basis. That's why LEO's have discretion.

A MOH winner can kill an innocent victim just like anyone else. While I believe in giving appropriate courtesy and respect to any hero of our nation, I do NOT believe in arbitrarily exempting ANYONE from the law.

It depends on the offense, and it depends on the offenders attitude afterwards.

[Nightshift va]

yeah, ok

I don't even know why this surprises anyone...until the end of time, we will discuss this subject in this specific state! It is true, "when in rome, do as the romans do"..everyone knows going through Virginia just play the game because they don't respect other cops..that's the way it is. They read this, and they damn well know who we're talking about on a specific summons..obviously they don't care, because they're not stopping anytime soon.

Lets face it boys...just a fact of life, your shield means nothing in VA. To the few VA cops that do respect it, thanks...and I know you look like the black sheep..but us out-of-town folk respect you..and when you come to our city, expect that we will treat you as one of our own..and extend every courtesy to you.

Just like the out of town visiting off duty officer in NYC who was arrested for carrying a concealed weapon by one of NYC Finest. Good thing HR218 was in place on appeal to throw out NYC retarded sullivan act. The problem Ive learned from working with former NYC cops and northern cops that migrate down south like everyone else does all too frequently to buy cheaper land and cheaper homes is it's a culture thing. Up north they tell you when stopped to immediately let the Officer know you are L.E. which is accompanied by the flashing of a badge and in the south most view that as a sign of disrespect "as if your badge makes you above the law" type of attitude. I understand both sides, especially with regard to officer safety and I personally want to know if your L.E. and ive been a cop in va for 14 years and have never written a sworn officer so I dont know where you get your info. I have given fellow LE advice on how next time to respectfully flash their badges and agree there are those that do not respect other cops but it's not the standard that southern cops write northern cops. The issue isnt a northern southern issue because friction even exist at times along bordering jurisdictions. You just have to treat others as you would like to be treated and be professional about it.

[BobDole]

Lets face it boys...just a fact of life, your shield means nothing in VA. To the few VA cops that do respect it, thanks...and I know you look like the black sheep..but us out-of-town folk respect you..and when you come to our city, expect that we will treat you as one of our own..and extend every courtesy to you.

I know you really don't think that is the truth. I know of a ton of pro PC cops in Virginia. I have never written a ticket or locked up a cop nor have any of my boys. As with the MOH guy for me to lock up a cop it better be a wife beater or a felony.

By saying that you are stereotyping all Virginia cops. Why don't you go as far as saying all Detroit cops violate constitutional rights, All New Orleans Cops are dirty, or All NYPD cops are on the take from one group or another? Anywhere you go your going to have your non PC guys, or your guys that make a bad name for their agency. There is no reason to include an entire state in it.

You can't tell me you that if you have ever been down here for police week and stayed in either Arlington or Alexandria and every time you dealt with a cop it ended up negative. If that is the case then let me direct you to Alexandria where every year all the COPS survivors stay in a hotel and they are escorted to and from the hotel anywhere they want to go CODE 3. They hop in a cruiser and say "ummm taco bell" and off goes a spouse or loved one CODE 3 to get some tacos. Many many Northern Virginia agencies participate in this every single year. No one is forced to do it. There are more volunteers then there are spaces. Off he top of my head I think I have seen Alexandria, Arlington, MWAA, Metro Transit, MPD and on and on.

If that isn't respect for the badge I really don't know what it.

I got a speeding ticket for 14 over on the PA Turnpike with Michigan FOP tags on my car. When he stroked me the ticket he asked "so are you a cop?" I said yes He asked to see my creds so I showed them to him. His exact quote was "oh well sign here shoulda f___ing known better!". Am I typing away in any forum bashing the PA State Troopers no I'm not. I was speeding, I was wrong, oh well I got a ticket. Do I feel he was unprofessional? Yes I do because he made a point of saying "shoulda f___ing known better". Don't think I didn't notice the camera or mic because they were there. Could I have had him hemmed up yea I could have. But unlike him I don't screw other cops. He is an example of one person acting on his own. Not an entire agency, county, or state.