Just got certified with the X-26 Tazer today. Worst 5 seconds of my life. I would take another 5 second ride though, instead of getting sprayed with Freeze +P again.
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I think its ridiculous that LEO's have to get shocked with that thing to be certified to carry and use it, what is the point ? If a LEO is hit with the taser, is it not going to have the same affect it has on a perp ? Is there anything you can do to stop the affect or to fight through it ? I don't think so. I can see the point of being subjected to pepper spray, but not the taser. LEO's carry pistols, do they have to be shot with those too ? NO Someone please explain the point of being tased (other than to provide entertainment for others) to me. Thankslaw dog
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Well how can you see the point for pepper spray but not a taser?? There are many people that aren't affected by pepper spray and even a few who aren't affected by tasers. The point is, most officers have to go thru the 'torture' to be certified to carry the equipment.Moooooooooooo, I'm a goat
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They told us that by "taking the ride" It could help with a jury opition. We had some judges and prosecutors "take a ride""Laws that forbid the carrying of arms. . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson
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Originally posted by patroldog View PostI think its ridiculous that LEO's have to get shocked with that thing to be certified to carry and use it, what is the point ? If a LEO is hit with the taser, is it not going to have the same affect it has on a perp ? Is there anything you can do to stop the affect or to fight through it ? I don't think so. I can see the point of being subjected to pepper spray, but not the taser. LEO's carry pistols, do they have to be shot with those too ? NO Someone please explain the point of being tased (other than to provide entertainment for others) to me. Thanks"In God we trust, all others we run NCIC"
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Originally posted by signal1 View PostAs an OC instructor, it is not about fighting through it or knowing how it affects you, it is about giving you the justification to use deadly force on the subject because you know that it could temporarily immobilize you. The same goes for the taser. If you use deadly force and it comes down to the trial, whether it be civil or criminal, it is going to be hard to say you used deadly force against the perp because he threatened you with your taser that he was able to get from you during the struggle if you have never been tased before. If you can testify that you have been tased during a controlled environment and that you know it will stun you for 5 seconds and then leaves you half paralyzed for a few seconds after that, which would have allowed the perp time enough to get your duty weapon and use it against you, there is not a jury in the world that would not side with you.
1) Too much reliance on one particular product's effectiveness (the "golden bullet") without anticipation of the need for "Plan B" if it doesn't work.
2) Too much desire to practice the same experiment on the first available willing or unwilling subject (often w/o sufficient justification).
3) Failure to recognize the hazards to the subject's health, prior to the product's use. ("It's totally safe, since they used it on me! Right?")
Listen to officers discussing their latest training and see how many are, "just dying to try it out!" I've seen this with new impact weapons, aerosol teargas products and now with tasers. It is a dangerous result of too much emphasis on how well the product works and too little emphasis on when or how (tactics) to use it. The myth of "Justification" is unsupported by any case law I'm aware of. Lawful or unlawful use of any force is determined by the total reasonableness of the individual situation and the officer's ability to articulate why that force was necessary. Removing the personal experience (of product's effects) part of the training does little (or nothing) to diminish the reasonableness of the officer's actions.
Example:
Attorney: "Officer, why did you shoot my client in the back after he sprayed you with Mace and ran away?"
Defendant: "It disabled me and he could have come back with a deadly weapon."
OC, Tasers, impact weapons, hand to hand defensive tactics, deadly force all have there place in our work. We need to know how they affect people (including us), but subjecting officers to a given product's effects is (IMO) counterproductive. l've experienced a wide variety of defensive products use personally because I volunteered to do so out of personal curiosity, but I never expect the same results when applied in the field to suspects who are in a different state of mental and physical condition. I will not force, intimidate, coerce or goad another person (officer or otherwise) to be subjected to a use of force without plenty of justification. Being a police officer doesn't mean you give up all rights (ie: Not to be the "willing" subject of an assault.")"I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."
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I have your answer.
Taser International doesn't require you be hit with it to carry their product.
If it's department policy you be hit with it to carry it and it's policy you carry it...then guess what...if you're not carrying it...you're out of policy....and subject to disciplinary action.
If it's an option to be hit with it or not carry it....make you're choice.
Personally, I've been hit twice. I had a lead placed on my neck and my ankle on the first cycle with the X26. Because I changed agencies who uses the M26, I had to take the probes to the back. That's better training because you actually get to remove the probes but you also know it's not painful to have the probes removed.
I'll say this, the taser has kept me from going to deadly force many times and I consider it a more useful tool than the baton and OC.
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Originally posted by flash4 View PostI have your answer.
Taser International doesn't require you be hit with it to carry their product.
If it's department policy you be hit with it to carry it and it's policy you carry it...then guess what...if you're not carrying it...you're out of policy....and subject to disciplinary action.
If it's an option to be hit with it or not carry it....make you're choice.
Personally, I've been hit twice. I had a lead placed on my neck and my ankle on the first cycle with the X26. Because I changed agencies who uses the M26, I had to take the probes to the back. That's better training because you actually get to remove the probes but you also know it's not painful to have the probes removed.
I'll say this, the taser has kept me from going to deadly force many times and I consider it a more useful tool than the baton and OC.
2) Any police officers' association that permits the above is failing to meet it's obligation to it's membership.
3) Any department that refuses to allow officers who don't get tased to carry the device is increasing their own (organizational) liability.
4) Although tasers can be used in situations allowing deadly force, they're not designed to replace use of deadly force. Our organization places the use of taser in the same general category as a baton and at a higher level of force than OC. If you've used these devices "many times" instead of going to deadly force, I'd have seriously question your UOF policy or your perceptions in the incidents you related to."I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."
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Originally posted by pulicords View Post1) Any department that requires tenured officers to submit to being tased (assaulted) in lieu of discipline doesn't have a legal leg to stand on.
2) Any police officers' association that permits the above is failing to meet it's obligation to it's membership.
3) Any department that refuses to allow officers who don't get tased to carry the device is increasing their own (organizational) liability.
4) Although tasers can be used in situations allowing deadly force, they're not designed to replace use of deadly force. Our organization places the use of taser in the same general category as a baton and at a higher level of force than OC. If you've used these devices "many times" instead of going to deadly force, I'd have seriously question your UOF policy or your perceptions in the incidents you related to."In God we trust, all others we run NCIC"
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i will just say that when I got my Taser it sucked!!!!!We only had to go until we dropped.I think I went down in about .56 seconds.I decided not to fight it,he gave me a total of 3 seconds.Longest 3 seconds of my life.I still have not got to use it so far!!!!!FILL YOUR HANDS!!!
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Originally posted by signal1 View PostDang pulicords...you having a couple bad days? Is the heat getting to you down there? We are discussing why it happens, not what we should be doing to go against our department policies."I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."
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Originally posted by Gulf Po Po View PostJust got certified with the X-26 Tazer today. Worst 5 seconds of my life. I would take another 5 second ride though, instead of getting sprayed with Freeze +P again.
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