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Swat Guys Or Any Officer

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  • Swat Guys Or Any Officer

    There is this one forum that has been bashing local law enforcement here lately. I have replied but there is no way to use logic with these people. If you want a good laugh (or frustation) here is the link. This is one of many anti-police threads they have started. http://www.topix.net/forum/city/meli...P5FF5O1KHU7BN9

  • #2
    That guy Nick is an idiot. I guess he doesn't realize that being a LEO is on of the few professions were people either love or hate you based off the uniform you wear.

    Don't waste your time replying to him, you will just aggravate yourself. Heaven forbid some crazed gunman kills Nick's kid and is raping his wife and holding the rest of the family hostage, we will see if Nick still thinks SWAT teams are a waste of money and time.

    By the way, any round that goes through my 3A vest like paper is high powered in my opinion.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by tzbv2p View Post
      That guy Nick is an idiot. I guess he doesn't realize that being a LEO is on of the few professions were people either love or hate you based off the uniform you wear.

      Don't waste your time replying to him, you will just aggravate yourself. Heaven forbid some crazed gunman kills Nick's kid and is raping his wife and holding the rest of the family hostage, we will see if Nick still thinks SWAT teams are a waste of money and time.

      By the way, any round that goes through my 3A vest like paper is high powered in my opinion.
      Although I do disagree with much of Nick's commentary, he does have some valid points. I believe SWAT should be reserved for use in narrow set of "Special" (as in the first letter of SWAT) circumstances. Hostage incidents, barricaded armed suspects and high risk search/arrest warrant service are examples. Excessive funding and emphasis on SWAT leads (in my opinion) to limited training, equipment and resources being allocated to patrol and other details where it's more frequently needed. Patrol Rifles and associated training being one example.

      I don't believe people in general either love us or hate us. I believe the vast majority of the public support us, but their knowledge of our job is severely limited by what they receive from the media. That said, I don't think it helps their perception of our duties by equating us more and more with the military. Our principal job is providing public safety through law enforcement, not to shoot people and blow things up!

      By the way, soft body armor (including Level 3 types) was never designed or intended to stop even comparatively low power rifle ammunition (.30 carbine, 30-30 Winchester, etc...). Soft body armor was designed to defeat ammunition from concealable firearms- Handguns.
      "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."

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      • #4
        What the heck was that Gunner moron talking about. What an idiot. A 7.62X39 is not high powered. People are uninformed. When you get all you information for a blogger I think you might have issues. Time to push away from the computer and get out into the sunlight.
        It takes a Wolf.......

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        • #5
          Everything's relative when you don't have much real expertise. A 7.62x39 is high powered, when compared to a .22 short. When compared to a 470 Nitro Express though?
          "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."

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          • #6
            Regardless of who you're referring to or what position you've taken on the issues being discussed, you're not contributing to the discussion in any manner with such postings. It doesn't help you to get banned from this site and I'd suggest that if you hope to progress beyond "Cadet", you might want to think twice about how you present yourself in a public forum.
            "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."

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            • #7
              i went , i read ,i saw ,,,,, sound's like he was the victim of a no knock visit to me after all he did discribe the flash bang pretty well..


              All gave some,,, Some gave all...

              Comment


              • #8
                This Is My Reply To Nick

                Nick,

                Bear with me here as I counter a few of your points. While I have great respect for both firefighters and police alike, your comment suggesting police work was not dangerous actually made me upset. I looked up the statistics regarding the average annual death rate of police officers in the United States. In recent years the average death rate in the US was 164 per year for LEOs. Last year firefighters had 100 deaths. Police work always has been and always will be dangerous. Also not every injury, not every incident is reported. I’ll be honest with you. I am a police officer and I can tell you there have been many times where I have injured myself in the line of duty and did not report it. Recently I cut my leg chasing a suspect and did not report the injury, but that’s neither here nor there. The point is the job is dangerous, and I firmly believe if safety were not a priority with officers the job would be much MUCH more dangerous.

                I also did not like your comment about how we are "cowards". I have served my country in both the military and as a civil servant for my community and if I were a coward I would not have done either. I take pride in having done both. I know you will say you probably did not mean to say all cops are cowards, but trust me it is still perceived poorly with me and I am sure every other officer out there took it as an insult. I do not know any officer who does not make safety their priority.

                You also mentioned how law enforcement work is not even close to being one of the most dangerous jobs. Well I looked up the "statistics" and noticed something ironic. It listed taxi drivers as the 10th most dangerous American job. Why do you think that is? I would assume it has to do mostly with traffic accidents. Given the amount of time a taxi driver spends on the road there is bound to be a higher amount of injuries and deaths associated with traffic accidents. But why then, in my 200 plus miles I drive every day as a police officer not as dangerous as a taxi driver? Because such a huge amount of my training went into safety. Which included safe and defensive driving training. My point here obviously is that working safer has affected that statistic. Now with respect to my fallen brother and sister LEOs I think 164 police deaths a year is far too high; however, I firmly believe it would be a great deal higher if safety (driving and otherwise) were not a primary concern for officers. That being said; I have taken several classes in police statistics and my instructors have told me and I also find it to be true, that you can make a "statistic" say anything. Numbers are easily manipulated when it comes to statistics. But that is an ENTIRLY different debate.

                As far as SWAT teams go and the service of warrants. I will have you know that probably around 80 percent of all warrants are executed without SWAT teams. I do it on a daily basis. Regularly I go up to a wanted persons door, and make an arrest without conflict. A lot of different reasons go into deciding when to use the SWAT team. You make it sound like it’s done for every warrant and used all so laxidasicly (if that is even a word but I think you get the point). Also the reason SWAT is used is not to counter a military threat. Nor is that the reason departments claim to have SWAT. The reasons for SWAT are to overwhelm suspects, to make entry and make an arrest so fast that there is no time for the suspect to respond, weather that be a warrant, an active shooter in a school or mall or some other unforeseen event requiring a highly trained, organized unit to quell a very serious situation. Now I am not SWAT and never have been so I cant go into the small details, and I don’t believe you can either. But you continue to speak about terrorists and assault weapons and that since there are few officer deaths from assault weapons and no clashes between SWAT and terrorists groups than SWAT is not necessary. I completely disagree because of the reasons I mentioned above. While I don’t doubt that there have been cases where SWAT has been used where it was not necessary I certainly do not believe it is a waste. No system is perfect and there will always be wrong decisions made whether it involves the police, SWAT or the local ice cream store buying too many cones.

                You also mentioned one of two reasons for SWAT is because its fun to dress up and play “Army”. I would like to know where you got that fact from. You should understand most SWAT officers are prior military and have already “Been there done that” so to speak. I’m not saying they don’t enjoy the training; however, you are WAY off on this one. Departments don’t create and fund SWAT teams so they can play “Army”

                Back to the firefighter thing. You said firemen are true "heroes" because they will run into a burning building without regard for safety. That is totally UNTRUE. Safety for them is also always a priority. They understand (as do police) they can’t save anyone if they’re hurt or even worse dead. Every attempt will be made to save the person in the SAFEST way possible for the rescuers. The same exact thing applies to cops. I am here to serve and protect the citizens of my community and its visitors. THERE IS NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT. However, I have, and always will, do it in the safest way possible for myself and those around me. And if that means me asking SWAT to serve a warrant, use a flash bang, and scream and yell "Sheriff's Office!" as they enter then so be it. But at least the person is off the street and I as well as my community are SAFE. You almost seem to be trying to make it sound like SWAT wants to go in and start shooting people in the name of officer safety. WRONG. In any case I am getting side tracked. My point here is you are correct. My job is clearly to serve and protect the people. However, what you don’t seem to understand is that I, as well as firefighters and any other first responder, will do it in the safest way humanly possible. And I will also have you know that there have been countless times where I have ran into a burning building to help someone, pulled someone from a mangled burning car, or wrestled someone to the ground who was a threat to the safety of my community. I will reiterate my point. Cops take risks every day to serve the community they patrol. Just because there is an emphasis on safety does not mean we have forgotten our primary job. Just because the “statistics” you have read don’t say police work is dangerous doesn’t mean it is necessarily true. And once again Ill say that the statistic can’t reflect how dangerous it could be if safety (which you seem to disagree with) were not a primary concern. You seem to think that cops would just let the person burn alive because they are "scared" or because they thought it wasn’t safe enough. You couldn’t be further from the truth.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Irishluck31 View Post
                  What the heck was that Gunner moron talking about. What an idiot. A 7.62X39 is not high powered. People are uninformed. When you get all you information for a blogger I think you might have issues. Time to push away from the computer and get out into the sunlight.
                  Rofl. At times I feel the same way. After reading some of the garbage on here I just shake my head and think " time to get away before I bash the screen and tick off my wife".
                  Prov 17:17 A friend loveth at all times, and a brother is born for adversity.

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                  • #10
                    Swat

                    Many years ago, my Dad gave me some pretty good advice. Can't say I've always followed it, but , here it is. "Never argue with an idiot. Someone listening might not be able to tell the difference".

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