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Some security guards just erk me.....

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  • #16
    I've had a few run ins with security guards, usually in the "screwing up crime scenes" venue. I try to remember, not everyone is created equal, some use it as a part time money maker, and most make minimum wage. It's easy to get ****ed at them, but some just plain don't know any better. The really bad ones are the ones that think they are cops.
    As far as "rights" are concerned; I look at them this way... I don't tell you what church to go to, and you don't tell me what kind of firearm I can own...

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    • #17
      Originally posted by D.o.D cop View Post
      Keep in mind the jurisdiction is concurrent, so Deputy's have a tendency to use that base as a short cut too, whether on or off duty.
      Concurent jurisdiction or not, if your not allowed to cut through.. your not allowed to cut through. I work as an 0083 Police Officer on Concurent Federal Property, and you would still be not allowed to be do that at our site. The only way is if I or any other officer extend you the courtesy... But that's a courtesy.. not a right. That security officer is likely operating under the supervision of law enforcement, or the military.

      As a reserve MP, and an ex-0085... you of all people should know the rules....

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      • #18
        Originally posted by D.o.D cop View Post
        ....He then tries to tell me that I cannot carry my firearm through the base, and that I cannot be in uniform while transiting the base. Also, keep in mind the jurisdiction on the base is concurrent (both local police and MP's have jurisdiction).

        The guy must have been 60 years old easy, and I'm just guessing that he's a wanna be that never could.

        Anybody else had a somewhat similar incident?
        From my perspective, I'm guessing that what you're looking at here is failure to address this very important issue (access for local LE) in the post orders. You might not be able to imagine that something that basic would be omitted, but if you'd seen some of the post orders I've reviewed, you'd know it's very possible.

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        • #19
          I am retired military and have access through my base with my retired ID card. Even though I carry off duty and when I have to do business on the base, I always put it in the glovebox before entering because I know the security morons will get a hard-on and make a scene. I know I could remedy this by waiting for them to leave the base to go home, but why be vindictive? I drop the gun and holster and do my shopping then head for the gate. I don't stop and swap war stories with them because I don't think they are much of anything. Yes, they do make more money than me per hour, but then again, they have absolutely no benefits. Why would someone work somewheres with no benefits, I'm lost for an answer.
          I am a Native American of non-Indian decent.

          Cleaning the pool, one gene at a time.

          I'm on a 30 day diet. So far I've lost 15 days!

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          • #20
            Originally posted by MPSoldier84 View Post
            Concurent jurisdiction or not, if your not allowed to cut through.. your not allowed to cut through. I work as an 0083 Police Officer on Concurent Federal Property, and you would still be not allowed to be do that at our site. The only way is if I or any other officer extend you the courtesy... But that's a courtesy.. not a right. That security officer is likely operating under the supervision of law enforcement, or the military.
            As a reserve MP, and an ex-0085... you of all people should know the rules....
            It's a different world since September 11th.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by MPSoldier84 View Post
              Concurent jurisdiction or not, if your not allowed to cut through.. your not allowed to cut through. I work as an 0083 Police Officer on Concurent Federal Property, and you would still be not allowed to be do that at our site. The only way is if I or any other officer extend you the courtesy... But that's a courtesy.. not a right. That security officer is likely operating under the supervision of law enforcement, or the military.

              As a reserve MP, and an ex-0085... you of all people should know the rules....
              Thats an important point you briefly mentioned, "allowed to be do that at our site." The point is, the Commanding Officer of the indiviadual military instillation will determine what is best for his or her base. If the CO does not want to grant LEO's access or concurrent jurisdiction, thats their descretion. As an MP, there authority only extends as far as their authorized by the CO. In most situations, police have concurrent jurisdiction, but in others they done. In the specifc situation mentioned by the original poster, it sounds as if that guard was not justified in challanging you. Your reserve ID alone would allow you access (uniform does not matter), and only your firearm could come into question on some instillations.

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              • #22
                Well unless we know the installation rules, CFR's, and the authority bestowed to the Security, we won't know who's justified. I can tell you one thing though, when it comes to a military installation you need to be respectful to anyone.. including contract security. Even though my personal belief is there should be NO contract security at base entry control points. At least 0085's with some authority should be present, with an 0083 to supervise them... or military servicemen of some sort...

                Granted, I don't work for the DOD on the civilian side.. but I have been with the MP's for many years, including being stationed at quite a few posts. I've never been to an installation where you DID not have the right to challenge anyone coming on the post.. unless it was someone of certain importance. I've been to bases where officers On-Duty in GSA, Municipal, or State vehicles were allowed entrance (And these were concurent).

                If that base is allowing access to people who have no purpose being on it, than to "take a short cut", and guarding it only with 60-year old contracted security... ESPECIALLY since all the crap that happened at Ft. Dix... god help all the employees and servicemen on that base...
                Last edited by MPSoldier84; 05-22-2007, 11:34 AM.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by MPSoldier84 View Post
                  Well unless we know the installation rules, CFR's, and the authority bestowed to the Security, we won't know who's justified. I can tell you one thing though, when it comes to a military installation you need to be respectful to anyone.. including contract security. Even though my personal belief is there should be NO contract security at base entry control points. At least 0085's with some authority should be present, with an 0083 to supervise them... or military servicemen of some sort...

                  Granted, I don't work for the DOD on the civilian side.. but I have been with the MP's for many years, including being stationed at quite a few posts. I've never been to an installation where you DID not have the right to challenge anyone coming on the post.. unless it was someone of certain importance. I've been to bases where officers On-Duty in GSA, Municipal, or State vehicles were allowed entrance (And these were concurent).

                  If that base is allowing access to people who have no purpose being on it, than to "take a short cut", and guarding it only with 60-year old contracted security... ESPECIALLY since all the crap that happened at Ft. Dix... god help all the employees and servicemen on that base...

                  I'm also a reservists, and presented my military id, so I had justification of being on the base.
                  You have the right to remain silent, but apparently you lack the skill to exercise that right.

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                  • #24
                    And as any reservist or soldier for that matter.. You are also STILL subject to questioning and review before being allowed to access an installation.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by MattG View Post
                      I had a guy walk up to me in the middle of a traffic stop and ask if I was going to be done soon because I was blocking the entrance to the minimart/gas station...and to top it off there were two entrance/exit points into the parking lot.

                      I just looked at him and asked if he was kidding. Then we kinda stared at each other for a few seconds and he backed off and went back to the front of the store and watched.

                      If the guy in the car came out shooting I should have used the guy for a shield.
                      I can SO relate to that, although the idiot I dealt with was not security.

                      Today I made a stop on a van that was just pulling into the parking lot of a small pharmacy type of store. The van immediately parked in a spot and I positioned my car at a 45 degree angle to it. I get his information and return to my car to run it. Oh, btw, this parking lot has another entrance/exit 20 feet away, and for the whole duration of the stop no one was trying to come in behind me or get out of a space. Ok, so about that time, a guy comes out of the store and walks up to my passenger window. He tells me I have to move because I'm blocking the driveway. I tell him I'm in the middle of a traffic stop and I'll be done shortly. He tells me no, I'm on private property and I have to park in the space (and points to the one next to the violator). I tell him I am not going to comply (politely, knowing my audio recorder is on ) He asks for my name and returns to the store.

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                      • #26
                        When I was on the road, there was this one shopping plaza that had the most imbread fat annoying security guard. Once you drive in the plaza, he tails you to see where your going and to see if theres any action. Then if you handle a call, he gets his notepad and follows you into the store and tries to stand by you to get the details. Just one of those things that is annoying.

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                        • #27
                          Well to clear a few things up, I live where there are 2 bases side to side, within 20 minutes of each other. As an ex-0085 series (federal security guard) and a former employee at the base with contracted security, I know for a fact that the base commanders want a Pro-LEO atmosphere, considering how many agreements they have with local LEO agency's to handle situations for them (i.e riots, Narcotics K-9's, and for any thing that doesn't fall under their jurisdiction). When I worked at both of them, we were allowed to ask 1 question: "For business or pleasure, sir?" If it was business, we had them stand by for a MP to come escort them, if not, we told them to have a nice day.

                          This SG got a little over eager. Extending courtesy or not from an 0083, you are subject to the CO's will and wants as well.

                          All I like to do is transit the base, and go on about my business. I don't stop except for gas.
                          Last edited by D.o.D cop; 05-28-2007, 11:14 PM. Reason: Had to add a few things....
                          You have the right to remain silent, but apparently you lack the skill to exercise that right.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by RwHJR3 View Post
                            When I was on the road, there was this one shopping plaza that had the most imbread fat annoying security guard. Once you drive in the plaza, he tails you to see where your going and to see if theres any action. Then if you handle a call, he gets his notepad and follows you into the store and tries to stand by you to get the details. Just one of those things that is annoying.
                            Hey Bro, noticed your from Florida. I maybe reading too far into this but if he is really annoying you, try politely informing him of the Resisting without violence/ obstructing justice statue or intimination of a witness or victim statue. It may make him backoff, but noticed you said "when you were on patrol". Stay safe bro!

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