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  • #31
    Originally posted by SRT936 View Post
    I remember clearly that I was second guessing myself even as I was taking him down. When I found the gun, I got angry, real angry. It stuck with me for awhile, but I was able to debrief with some trusted partners that really helped me get a perspective on it.
    Second guessing yourself is very natural. You had the presence of mind DURING the fight to be able to rationally think out your actions. This is a sorely needed trait in LE.

    And debriefing with a trusted partner, usually one who has been in the same type of situation, really helps put things in the proper perspective. When my partner was killed by an armed robbery suspect in 1994, the Department brought in a common shrink....not a shrink that deals mostly with police. So, I never talked to her. As a matter of fact, I was angry that the department heads put so little thought into their choice of Drs. I found that talking with the other officers helped me a lot.

    Stay safe folks!

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    • #32
      He wanted an opinion, I gave him one

      Originally posted by jakflak View Post
      I think if you weren't there you shouldn't second guess him.
      Thats why I said "Hindsight" believe me, I agree with you and all fellow officers not having the benefit of 20/20 Hindsight or the convienance of monday morning quarterbacking. He did a good job because he wen't home. I was just stating the facts related to something not his fault but the criminal justice systems fault. The fact that the dirtbag will be out of prison again and probably conduct himself in the same manner only next time he might get an officer who is not as mentally prepared to stop him.
      "Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. The MARINES don't have that problem." ....Ronald Reagan

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Nightshift va View Post
        Thats why I said "Hindsight" believe me, I agree with you and all fellow officers not having the benefit of 20/20 Hindsight or the convienance of monday morning quarterbacking. He did a good job because he wen't home. I was just stating the facts related to something not his fault but the criminal justice systems fault. The fact that the dirtbag will be out of prison again and probably conduct himself in the same manner only next time he might get an officer who is not as mentally prepared to stop him.
        Well put. I couldn't agree more.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by jakflak View Post
          Well put. I couldn't agree more.
          That my friends is what I fear the most. This guy WOULD have killed any officer if he could have got it done, not to mention some unarmed citizen.
          "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms. . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson

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          • #35
            Originally posted by SRT936 View Post
            Unfortunately yes. In fact, the very first traffic stop I ever made as an officer was the first time I had a guy go for a gun. Stopped a guy in the middle of nowhere for a possible OWI. I had him out of his car. I looked down at his DL, and he bolted for his car. I gave chase. He reached into the car, across the seat for the glovebox just as I laid hands on him and "thumped" him down. Once he was cuffed, I checked the glovebox and found a loaded .38 special. It was an eye-opener that helped set the tone for my career.

            I remember clearly that I was second guessing myself even as I was taking him down. When I found the gun, I got angry, real angry. It stuck with me for awhile, but I was able to debrief with some trusted partners that really helped me get a perspective on it.
            Man sounds so much like my little deal. I mean this guy just made a rather fast move that I just didn't feel comfortable with, so I snatched him up and put him down. I remember thinking Man I hope this guy was really trying something stupid or this is my a-- Worst part is I really was to patient and waited to long because he actually had the gun in his hand when I grabbed him. I did not see it until I had a good hold on his arm. I am really disappointed with that because I should have been a little more decisive, but I'll take the outcome.
            "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms. . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson

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            • #36
              Originally posted by j706 View Post
              Worst part is I really was to patient and waited to long because he actually had the gun in his hand when I grabbed him. I did not see it until I had a good hold on his arm. I am really disappointed with that because I should have been a little more decisive, but I'll take the outcome.
              Delay due to reaction time is a law of nature and impossible to correct. Don't beat yourself up over it! Things seem to slow down during high stress encounters, but in reality they don't. You recognized the threat, responded and handled the situation to a satisfactory conclusion. In all probability, your reaction time wouldn't change if the same thing happened tomorrow. You did an outstanding job, learned from it and passed that experience on to others. There really isn't anything left to do.
              "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."

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              • #37
                Originally posted by pulicords View Post
                Delay due to reaction time is a law of nature and impossible to correct. Don't beat yourself up over it! Things seem to slow down during high stress encounters, but in reality they don't. You recognized the threat, responded and handled the situation to a satisfactory conclusion. In all probability, your reaction time wouldn't change if the same thing happened tomorrow. You did an outstanding job, learned from it and passed that experience on to others. There really isn't anything left to do.
                Except really pay a lot more attention to indicator's. Remember what we all learned in the academy about those. As I thought it over later, I was seeing a lot of them. I do not recall thinking about them at the time but maybe I was and didn't realize it. I did have that gut feeling of "heads up this guys bad news" But I have had that before and it was nothing. ( or at least nothing I found) My point? I think those indicator's are worth officers paying attention to. Stay safe everyone.
                "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms. . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson

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                • #38
                  Update-Perp still in county jail after three bond reduction attempts. ($250,000.00 commercial only) Jury trial Oct.10,2007 9:00 am for-


                  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                  Offense: Charge: 001 UNLAWFUL POSS OF FIREARM BY SER VIOLENT FELON Offense Date: 04-29-2007 Statute: 35-47-4-5 Degree: B Level: FB Arrest Date: 04/29/2007
                  Charge: 002 RESISTING LAW ENFORCEMENT W/ DEADLY WEAPON Offense Date: 04-29-2007 Statute: 35-44-3-3(a)(1) Degree: D Level: FD Arrest Date: 04/29/2007
                  Charge: 003 DRIVING WHILE SUSPENDED PRIOR Offense Date: 04-29-2007 Statute: 9-24-19-2 Degree: A Level: CM Arrest Date: 04/29/2007
                  Charge: 004 HABITUAL FELONY OFFENDER ENHANCEMENT Offense Date: 04-29-2007 Statute: 35-50-2-8 Arrest Date: 04/29/2007
                  Charge: 005 THEFT Offense Date: 04-29-2007 Statute: 35-43-4-2(a) Degree: D Level: FD Arrest Date: 04/29/2007
                  Charge: 006 THEFT Offense Date: 04-29-2007 Statute: 35-43-4-2(a) Degree: D Level: FD Arrest Date: 04/29/2007

                  And since being locked up- one count of battery with bodily injury as a D-Felony.
                  "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms. . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson

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                  • #39
                    Don't be surprised if the suspect pleads out just prior to trial. Also, how have you been doing?
                    "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by pulicords View Post
                      Don't be surprised if the suspect pleads out just prior to trial. Also, how have you been doing?
                      All good here, thanks. What about You? Just like all of you guys said, it is in the back of my mind now, I hardly ever even think about it. No more firearm incidents as of late. I expect some sort of a plea, however the prosecutors office told me they want a minimum of thirty with no good time, with no exceptions. I did get a letter from the DOD saying a law firm (Scum bags Defense lawyer) had requested by DOD records for some reason. I have nothing to hide. They will probably attempt to put me on trial, you know, poor guy getting picked on by the police. I am ready. I'll post what happens. Take care.
                      "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms. . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Brother, just be glad you are here. Whatever happens to that scum let it happen. I hope he gets the full extent of his crime. I have been in two such incidents as you explained, and another where i did have to shoot and kill the guy. I think about it all the time, but in the long run, i look at it as i made it home, he did not. You will always have that stuff go through your mind and it will bother you at times. I see it like this, you made it. You are here typing on this forum. Stay safe bro........................

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                        • #42
                          I'm fine (thanks for asking). I still think about the last shooting, but not excessively (?) so and less frequently as time passes.

                          Don't sweat the defense discovery request, it's perfectly normal in these kind of cases and (with no significant incidents in your history) may still lead to a negotiated plea. Thirty years before possible parole in this incident sounds like a good sentence. If the deal goes through, you'll be looooong retired before this guy is looking at getting out on parole. If the case does go to trial, it gives you a perfect opportunity to tell the jury and/or judge what happened to you. When they hear testimony from you and recognize the "human" side of the incident (vs just reviewing a case file) it's not unusual to see an even more significant sentence later handed down. Keep us up to date!
                          "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."

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                          • #43
                            Still no plea on this thing. In February the defense has a "evidence suppression" hearing scheduled. Not sure what they are up to but I am glad to see the prosecutors office is sticking with it and not playing games. Guy is still in jail and has racked up a battery with injury charge while incarcerated.
                            "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms. . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              My first shooting was on a domestic violence call. Long story short, I was left no other option- that is if I wanted to live. That was a fatality. My second shooting was the one that actually bothered me the most because it was on a traffic stop, I had made contact with the driver, and I knew he was armed. Not anticipating any trouble and assuming he was a law abiding citizen (because he told me he was armed and had a permit) I was put somewhat at ease. The problem is in the district of columbia, its illegal (for now) to own a handgun.

                              The handgun was supposed to be locked up in the trunk or glove compartment, seperate from the ammunition. It wasnt, it was on him. My intent was to shoo him on his way but I never got that chance as he was determined at that point that he was not going to jail for a simple traffic bench warrant. The end result is he is now in prison in a wheelchair. And from now on if I have to deal with a citizen who is armed, they will be relieved of that weapon till I am done with the stop....

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                              • #45
                                j706,

                                I'm glad you are ok....and second guessing is something almost everybody who has been in a critical incident does....its part of our nature.

                                I've been in three OIS....all were fatal.....2 where I shot, one were I was a witness,.... I've been in 3-4 'almosts', including one where I had a shotgun pointed at my nose for about a second....from less than 5 feet away.....felt like I was staring down a drainpipe.....and THAT incident affected me ALOT more than one were I had actually killed someone....

                                FWIW, I'm part of the peer support group that deals with OIS incidents for my department....feel free to PM me if you want to vent....
                                The posts on this forum by this poster are of his personal opinion, and his personal opinion alone

                                "Politicians are like diapers. They need to be changed often and for the same reason"

                                "We fight not for glory; nor for wealth; nor honor, but only and alone we fight for freedom, which no good man surrenders but with his life"

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