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  • #16
    Originally posted by pulicords View Post
    I've had three shootings over the 30+ years on the job, the last one resulted in a fatality to the suspect and it occurred a little over a year ago. Second guessing yourself or reliving the experience is a normal response to a life threatening incident. Just think of it as nature's way of preparing for the next incident, should one occur. If we care about doing our job well and survival, we always try to improve our performance. This should occur during less threatening incidents too, but obviously a situation as stressfull as yours amplifies the reaction accordingly.

    In the days, weeks and months following my last shooting, I mentally relived the incident at least every hour. When I wasn't preoccupied with something else, I recalled the incident. Obviously this isn't a good thing, but at least in my situation time has improved my reaction. I don't think about the incident as often now and it's become a less and less important part of my life. Obviously many mental health professionals might refer to this or similar situations as PTSD, but life in general and a career in law enforcement in particular involve "traumatic stress" incidents. Understanding this enables one to learn from the experience and move on. I'm sure a year from now you'll be feeling much better about the incident and how you reacted to it.
    That is exactly what I have been doing and my little incident is not even close to yours. Glad to hear you survived them all. Thanks.
    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms. . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson

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    • #17
      I've been told that the fact that someone tried to take the cop's life is about as difficult to deal with emotionally as having to take the bad guy's life.
      Yeh, having someone try to kill you gets very personal. It's perfectly understandable to get mad about it.

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      • #18
        You were lucky to be able to keep him from shooting you. Im glad you went home and he went back in. Unfortunately if he gets out again he may try it again with another cop who either doesnt react as quick as you did or another cop who isnt as lucky and he might kill them. Maybe if you would have shot him it wouldnt be a future issue. Hindsight etc..You did a good job though.
        "Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. The MARINES don't have that problem." ....Ronald Reagan

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        • #19
          Thank god you are okay. Outstanding job! Keep up the good work.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Nightshift va View Post
            Maybe if you would have shot him it wouldnt be a future issue. Hindsight etc..You did a good job though.
            I think if you weren't there you shouldn't second guess him.

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            • #21
              Enough Monday Morning Quarterbacks

              Originally posted by jakflak View Post
              I think if you weren't there you shouldn't second guess him.
              Right on!
              "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."

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              • #22
                Originally posted by j706 View Post
                Were you mad? Seems like I have been ticked off for two weeks now. It seems like all my calls now are petty little chicken s----stuff and it anoys the heck out of me. I had a deposition two days after this on a simple OWI and ended up giving the defense d--- a verbal lashing. I have never even came close to doing that before. I guess He's a dick anyway.
                I don't remember being more angry with other people, just shook up and wondering why he didn't kill me. Had me dead to rights. I also didn't have anybody second guessing me either though.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by jakflak View Post
                  I think if you weren't there you shouldn't second guess him.
                  Thats O.K. guys I was wanting as many of your thoughts as I could get. I appreciate everyone thoughts and opinions. It shows we all think in different ways.
                  "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms. . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by 208 View Post
                    Thank god you are okay. Outstanding job! Keep up the good work.
                    Thanks- would you believe the guy didn't even have a round chambered? Full mag ,safety off and empty chamber. ( Bersa .380acp hydro-shocks) Believe it or not the weapon was stolen. Bummed me out, I was hoping to get it when the case was disposed of. The owner wants it back. Would have made a nice keepsake
                    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms. . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Nightshift va View Post
                      You were lucky to be able to keep him from shooting you. I'm glad you went home and he went back in. Unfortunately if he gets out again he may try it again with another cop who either doesn't react as quick as you did or another cop who isn't as lucky and he might kill them. Maybe if you would have shot him it wouldn't be a future issue. Hindsight etc..You did a good job though.
                      Believe me I have thought about that a lot. Please don't take this as conceited but we have some officers who would have been shot. I think we all have a few-right? To add insult to injury this guy is a convicted murderer and I don't think he should have been out period. I think that is the main reason it ticks me off so much. He was just busted two months ago for stabbing his girlfriend four times.
                      "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms. . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by j706 View Post
                        Were you mad? Seems like I have been ticked off for two weeks now.
                        For what its work j706, the first time I had a guy go for a gun on me, the major thing I remember was the incredible anger that flowed out of me. "How dare that SOB try to pull a gun on ME!" was the immediate thought. That rage stuck with me for awhile afterwards. A trusted partner helped me through it. The anger is normal, but if it gets all-consuming, debrief with somebody you trust.
                        \

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                        • #27
                          I also was involved in a shooting a few years back where the suspect died. I know what I did needed to be done and was was justified in my actions but I have always had a small thought in the back of my mind that maybe there was someting else I could have done. I think part of that comes from as soon as he fell and dropped his gun I grabbed it and thats when I saw the it was not loaded he fired all the rounds into his TV just prior to My arrival. It still kinda bothers me to this day that things went the way they did. I also went thru the anger issues you described but probally 100 times worse. I was mad at everyone My poor family took most of the brunt of the anger and I almost lost them over it but I went and got some help and things are getting alot better now. I was so angry for almost two years before I went to talk to someone.

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                          • #28
                            Accepting Facts

                            Originally posted by bigboris View Post
                            I know what I did needed to be done and was was justified in my actions but I have always had a small thought in the back of my mind that maybe there was someting else I could have done. I think part of that comes from as soon as he fell and dropped his gun I grabbed it and thats when I saw the it was not loaded he fired all the rounds into his TV just prior to My arrival.
                            It never ceases to amaze me how we (those involved in significant use of force issues) question our own actions even when we know what we did was right under the conditions we faced at the time! I believe it has something to do with the type of people hired to do this kind of work. Being that a good cop is one who can make the decision to shoot (or not), when Joe Citizen might just go into "displacement mode" and fail to act at all. The problem with dealing with the situation afterward is that good police officers sometimes have a great deal of trouble just accepting the fact that we did what we did and letting it go. I'd be willing to bet a month's pay that if Boris overheard some citizen (or even another cop) criticizing a rookie who responded similarly to the threat (faced by Boris) he'd jump all over the "Monday Morning Quarterback" for not knowing squat! There is no way an officer can read a suspect's mind, check a gun to verify it's loaded or have any way of knowing when an assault is in progress if the offender really intends to harm us or just wants to commit "Suicide by Cop." What we do know is what we perceive and what we can do to mitigate the threat. Responding properly allows us to learn from the experience and live on to retirement. Failing to respond properly leads to an early retirement or death.
                            "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by SRT936 View Post
                              For what its work j706, the first time I had a guy go for a gun on me, the major thing I remember was the incredible anger that flowed out of me. "How dare that SOB try to pull a gun on ME!" was the immediate thought. That rage stuck with me for awhile afterwards. A trusted partner helped me through it. The anger is normal, but if it gets all-consuming, debrief with somebody you trust.
                              So I take it this has happened to you more than once?
                              "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms. . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by j706 View Post
                                So I take it this has happened to you more than once?
                                Unfortunately yes. In fact, the very first traffic stop I ever made as an officer was the first time I had a guy go for a gun. Stopped a guy in the middle of nowhere for a possible OWI. I had him out of his car. I looked down at his DL, and he bolted for his car. I gave chase. He reached into the car, across the seat for the glovebox just as I laid hands on him and "thumped" him down. Once he was cuffed, I checked the glovebox and found a loaded .38 special. It was an eye-opener that helped set the tone for my career.

                                I remember clearly that I was second guessing myself even as I was taking him down. When I found the gun, I got angry, real angry. It stuck with me for awhile, but I was able to debrief with some trusted partners that really helped me get a perspective on it.
                                \

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