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US Supreme Court rules on high speed chases

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  • #31
    Originally posted by scratched13 View Post
    What is this? The Minority Report? You are chasing because of POSSIBLE FUTURE EVENTS????? That makes zero sense.
    How many armed robberies have you worked? How many have you arrested? If you've worked any amount then you'd probably notice that virtually ALL of them don't just do one. In fact every robber I've ever arrested or assisted in investigating/arresting has done multiple. So it's actually COMMON sense that an armed robber is a continuing threat to the community. You chase because of what they just did AND because the huge likelyhood that they will do it again.

    That is a BIG leap. Again, you are chasing because of a possible future event?????
    Ever seen an armed robbery go sideways?? It's doesn't take much for a situation to go bad when you have a desperated person with a gun waving it around in a store full of people that are scared $h!tless. I'm assisting with a robbery/homicide right now that is exactly that. Guy shoots the clerk for no reason whatsoever, just got spooked.

    ??????? You are putting people at risk for property??????? And property is justifiable as a greater risk to society than a chase?????
    Depends on the chase. Many chases I've been in were very low risk. Fairly low speeds, no traffic on the road, bad guy did not seem desperate or irratic. The amount of risk involved in a chase is fluid and should be constantly measured. Every chase is different. The point at which the danger outweighs the benifit of catching the bad guy then it should end IMHO.

    So you are saying that it is okay to chase robbers because they are more likely to eventually KILL someone, but someone WHO HAS ALREADY KILLED is less likely to again?????
    Yes. How many repeat offenders for armed robbery are there compared to homicide? Most serial killers are well known.

    That being said I would chase a homicide suspect until the wheels feel off. I was just saying that it was interesting in theory. I mean if you had the homicide suspect identified (meaning warrants could be issued and he can be picked up later) and knowing that most homicide suspects are not repeat killers (assuming we are not talking about a serial killer) you could argue that the need to chase them is not as great as one might really think.

    THE BIGGER PICTURE IS IN PLAY HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I agree. I just think you're the one missing it (as usual IMHO ).
    Two people can keep a secret if one of them is dead.

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    • #32
      I totally agree with you chief about chasing for traffic. Chase them until it does it becomes very dangerous. But as for homicide suspects, if you let a gang member who just committed a drive-by go, the likelyhood of him doing it again, is very high.

      I have said we could reduce dangerous chases by having a countywide policy that would have every department involved. If one department starts a pursuit, every agency in that department assisists with it. Blocking intersections, laying out stop sticks. Just saturate the area with patrol cars. This would, more than likely, make the suspect ditch the car and run on foot.

      Then we have to get with the DA's and ask them to charge these idiots who run. How many time have we gone to court and the suspect plead out to a charge and the Fleeing and Eluding charge gets dismissed.

      Pursuits are dangerous, but if we don't allow them to happen, we are allowing these drivers to continue running from us until they do kill someone and we allowing them to continue the crimes they are running from.

      Comment


      • #33
        Pursuits are like any other use of force issue. If you don't think that following a car at 90 MPH through a residential area is dangerous, than you're in the wrong business. That being said, we don't shoot unless we're pretty damn sure that we need to. Most of us have had a small level of pursuit training, but not much in the way of high speed pursuit training. Those who have access to a good track and qualified instructors are in the minority. Bad guys have even less training, but they also have less concern for anyone who walks or drives into their path. Pursue when appropriate but police need to pick their battles. The Supremes gave us permission to use our tools so we need to use them wisely.
        Jerry
        "If all else fails, stop using all else!"

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        • #34
          Wig - you are the one missing the big picture. As usual. Once again.
          Space for rent .........

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          • #35
            Originally posted by scratched13 View Post
            Wig - you are the one missing the big picture. As usual. Once again.
            Virtually every expert in the field and every PD in the country disagrees with you, but that's your opinion I guess. That and $5 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

            Damn coffee is expensive!!! Glad I don't drink it.
            Two people can keep a secret if one of them is dead.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Chief Wiggum View Post
              Virtually every expert in the field and every PD in the country disagrees with you, but that's your opinion I guess. That and $5 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

              Damn coffee is expensive!!! Glad I don't drink it.
              Virtually every lawyer who is out to make a few million no matter how destructive it is to our society AGREES with you. Congratulations!
              Space for rent .........

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              • #37
                Originally posted by scratched13 View Post
                Virtually every lawyer who is out to make a few million no matter how destructive it is to our society AGREES with you. Congratulations!

                Those must be some smart lawyers if they agree with me.
                Last edited by Chief Wiggum; 05-14-2007, 01:35 PM.
                Two people can keep a secret if one of them is dead.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Chief Wiggum View Post
                  Those must be some smart lawyers if they agree with me.
                  No, greedy and selfish - no matter the cost to the rest of us. That decribe you?
                  Space for rent .........

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by scratched13 View Post
                    No, greedy and selfish - no matter the cost to the rest of us. That decribe you?
                    If not continuing a pursuit for a traffic offense when it hits excessive speeds through residential neighborhoods is greedy and selfish then yes.
                    Two people can keep a secret if one of them is dead.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Chief Wiggum View Post
                      If not continuing a pursuit for a traffic offense when it hits excessive speeds through residential neighborhoods is greedy and selfish then yes.
                      Ohhhhhhh, puuuuuuuulllllllleeeeeaaaassssssssseeeeeeeeee..... ...
                      Space for rent .........

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by scratched13 View Post
                        Ohhhhhhh, puuuuuuuulllllllleeeeeaaaassssssssseeeeeeeeee..... ...
                        Outstanding and intelligent response. I expect no less from you. Obviously you are done discussing this so I guess I am too. Have a nice day.
                        Two people can keep a secret if one of them is dead.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Chief Wiggum View Post
                          Outstanding and intelligent response. I expect no less from you. Obviously you are done discussing this so I guess I am too. Have a nice day.
                          Make up whatever response you want to ("if saving the day for the entire world means that I am greedy, etc ........"), but what you are typing is just plain hogwash.


                          Oh, yeah ......................
                          Space for rent .........

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by scratched13 View Post
                            Make up whatever response you want to...but what you are typing is just plain hogwash.
                            Funny, I was thinking the same thing about you.

                            You apparently think we should chase everyone for everything no matter what and should never stop regardless of the danger.

                            I think we should chase everything but continually evaluate the danger to all involved and weigh the value of catching them (traffic violation, armed robber, serial rapist, etc...) vs the danger to the community (including yourself). From there we make the decision of whether or not to continue the pursuit.

                            Seriously scratched, have you ever even been in a pursuit? Because you talk about this stuff like you read about it in a book.
                            Two people can keep a secret if one of them is dead.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Chief Wiggum View Post
                              Funny, I was thinking the same thing about you.

                              You apparently think we should chase everyone for everything no matter what and should never stop regardless of the danger.

                              I think we should chase everything but continually evaluate the danger to all involved and weigh the value of catching them (traffic violation, armed robber, serial rapist, etc...) vs the danger to the community (including yourself). From there we make the decision of whether or not to continue the pursuit.
                              Seriously scratched, have you ever even been in a pursuit? Because you talk about this stuff like you read about it in a book.
                              Nothing that I have bolded do I really object to. The PROBLEM with it is that policies are written AND INTERPRETTED by admin guys. If it works out okay, then usually no problem. When bad things happen - NO MATTER WHAT THE SITUATION IS - you are screwed. I can articulate very easily the risk to chasing a MURDER suspect being OUTWEIGHED by the risk to innocents on the streets. You chase a murder suspect and there is a bad crash - you @ss is grass in our city. Policies that are written (like most chase policies) so that the result (IE wreck) determines whether or not the policy is broken. And that is BS.

                              Oh, I have been in a few chases. And a few "following the suspect at a distance without activating my emergency equipment so as to determine his general direction" 's.
                              Space for rent .........

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                My organization also has a "No Pursuit" policy, do I agree ? No, do i adhere, yes, for the most part. I tend to agree with a lot of the members that these policies should remain unknown to the public, if a perp knows you won't chase him/her, they will run, causing more danger to the public and another blow to the effectiveness of law enforcement. Actual policing has been chipped away by the adaption of laws effectively reducing the times police can be proactive and enhancing the ability of the criminal to ply his/her trade without fear of apprehension due to some B/S politically correct "LAW". Stay Safe out there.
                                law dog

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