US Supreme Court rules on high speed chases

[ask80]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/LAW/04/30/sc...ase/index.html

victory for LEOs

[PhilipCal]

Supreme Court

First off, thanks for the post with the info. I'm expressing a personal opinion now, so I hope no one gets angry with me. As encouraging as the Supreme Court decision is to me personally, I don't look for it to change the politically correct, no guts(no) pursuit policies in effect in many jurisdictions at present. That simply won't change anytime soon. Still, I'm glad the decision came down the way that it did. The decision to run from the police is a decision made by the perp. It's high time he/she becomes responsible for his actions.No one who makes a conscious decision to run from the police should be rewarded for it. This decision will help to insure that he doesn't.

[AKA=Cruz]

I am glad that the US Supreme Court ruled in favor of the officers, but it should never have to get this far. The suspects dictate the out come, and should be held accountable for the results. It makes no scenes to blame an officer, for doing his job. The public wants you to protect them from the predators of society but to do it with kid gloves. As most LEO know the suspect determines how the arrest will go.
This is what happened in Houston…see the video on the right.
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?se...cal&id=5242542
Officer Tom Nixon lost his job for speaking out against HPD's chase policy. Today he's running for city council. still criticizing the department he was a member of for a decade.

[IMachU]

While it is true that the suspect determines how his/her arrest will come out, we as law enforcement MUST make common-sense judgements in police chases. My department does not allow us to chase for simple traffic infractions, SUSPECTED stolen cars, and misdemeanors (firearms excluded).

The reason being is that a stolen car is insured, and the car owner will get another car in return. Yeah, higher insurance premiums, but we have a reverence for human life. That, in my opinion, is worth a LOT more than bragging rights for catching a car thief after he crashes into a family of 4, killing them all. I have abandoned more pursuits than actually pursued. It is NOT worth an innocent life to catch a red light runner. I know they have more going against them than the red light, but to me it's not worth it. Not in a major metropolitan area like L.A.

The pursuits we DO go after are crimes against persons, like carjacking, robbery, weapons crimes, etc., or where public safety is in danger more if the bad guy gets away.

And I DO applaud the court decision!! Good call, and it protects the protectors.

Again, just common sense, IMHO.

[Nightshift va]

Amen Brother

I am glad that the US Supreme Court ruled in favor of the officers, but it should never have to get this far. The suspects dictate the out come, and should be held accountable for the results. It makes no scenes to blame an officer, for doing his job. The public wants you to protect them from the predators of society but to do it with kid gloves. As most LEO know the suspect determines how the arrest will go.
This is what happened in Houston…see the video on the right.
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?se...cal&id=5242542
Officer Tom Nixon lost his job for speaking out against HPD's chase policy. Today he's running for city council. still criticizing the department he was a member of for a decade.

I started a thread on this subject related to the Supreme Court Decision not seeing this one. It is a true victory for us and american citizens. All the anti-Bush people can't take away one good thing he did before his departure. He made the Supreme Court a Majority of Pro-Police due to the disgraces like Ruth Bader Ginsberg. Thanks George W Bush!

[rugermk2]

All the anti-Bush people can't take away one good thing he did before his departure. He made the Supreme Court a Majority of Pro-Police due to the disgraces like Ruth Bader Ginsberg. Thanks George W Bush!

10-4 on that. I was thinking the same thing until I saw it was an 8-1 vote. Wow! That really surprised me. I knew which way Scalia and Alito would rule, but in case you didn't notice, even Ruth Bader Ginsburg (pardon me while I spit ruled in our favor. I'm hoping this nearly unanimous opinion will have a positive concrete effect for us road troops.

[Seventy2002]

I've gotta say I'm surprised by the ruling. I'm really happy about it but I didn't think it would go our way. Looks like the video from the in-car cameras had a lot of influence on the Supremes. Remember that next time someone says the cameras are just there to jam up cops.

[scratched13]

While noone can equate a person life to property, I get sick of hearing people say "just buy another car" when the subject of car cahses come up. If we all a willing to lose our houses and possessions so that we all feel nice and safe and bubble-wrapped, then okay. I am not willing. If we do not chase the BG's, then they all will run for EVERYTHING. We, in affect, will be dictating to them, that they SHOULD run for the small stuff.

Right now, the real BG's run for everything. A no (or very restricted) chase policy does nothing more than help them AND encourage those who normally wouldn't run to go ahead and do so. In effect, we are all EVEN LESS SAFE.

While I am not saying that I believe that my car is worth a life, if someone stole my car, it would be a GREAT impact on my family. I CANNOT replace my cars. They are liability insured only. That means I would have to work a LOT of part-times to make the monthly payments FOR YEARS. That is time -REAL TIME - away form my family.

Now, along this same line, should we take away guns from officers "because someone MAY get hurt or killed?"

[AKA=Cruz]

IMACHU
So, why even attempt to pull over anyone / why post speed limits or stop signs? Running a stop sign, speeding, drag racing or DUI never hurt anyone right? These are all class C misdemeanors here in Texas. Do you consider these minor infractions? Try telling the families who have lost loved ones in a traffic fatality. Not to mention that stolen vehicles are used for more serous offenses i.e. Burglaries, sexual assaults, and aggravated robberies for quick dumps. At least that I have seen them used for in the past in my area.
Laws are written to protect society. I have taken oath of enforcing those laws not just the one that like or that I have deemed to Major enough to get my attention. Will I end a pursuit if I feel it is too dangerous for me or the public? Yes, of course. But, it should be the discretion of the officer in a pursuit or field supervisor not a general statement policy. I have never been in a pursuit that the conditions were the same.

Nightshift VA
This is a discussion Forum not a Blog, it is to hear opinions and thoughts from LEOs point of views. That is why love this site…If you are posting news with no feed back needed post a Blog…

[IMachU]

Cruz - You missed the point of my reply. If public safety is at risk (DUI, drag racing, reckless driving BEFORE the pursuit initiated), then we can chase. But only to the point where WE can keep control (as much as we can control a pursuit, anyway).

Try telling the loved ones killed in a traffic fatality due to a pursuit that the reason you chased them was for a speeding ticket. That'll go over well.

I, too, enforce laws. But I will NOT allow a pursuit to contiunue for cheesy reasons like a traffic infraction, or where we have IDd the suspect. I value human life more than that.

[ppd101]

Cruz -
Try telling the loved ones killed in a traffic fatality due to a pursuit that the reason you chased them was for a speeding ticket. That'll go over well.

Try telling a family that there daughter is dead because the person who carjacked and kidnapped her was only speeding when the officer first observed them. And was let go because they were only speeding. That will go over pretty well also.

[IMachU]

Try telling a family that there daughter is dead because the person who carjacked and kidnapped her was only speeding when the officer first observed them. And was let go because they were only speeding. That will go over pretty well also.

Good grief. Again, crimes against persons can be chased in my Department.

[IMachU]

We can what-if all day long (as we SHOULD be doing). Each pursuit is on a case-by-case basis. If the risk to innocent lives (inluding the lives of our own families while on the road),then let the pursuit go. If it's not worth the risk, then use sound judgement and common sense and let it go.

[scratched13]

Only arrest those willing to submit to being arrested. That is where this is going.

[ppd101]

Good grief. Again, crimes against persons can be chased in my Department.

But if you were only pulling the vehicle over for speeding and was unaware of the kidnapping, you would be told to discontinue. That was my point.