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  • Too much oversight?

    Does anyone else have problem with this? I know I don't know all the details, but where is the common sense here? And one of the council members is a retired police officer?

    Michigan Town Wants FBI to Probe Shooting

    Flint City Council members want the FBI to intervene in the investigation of fatal police shooting Friday.

    City Councilwoman Carolyn Sims, a retired Flint police officer, lashed out at what she called "rookie" police officers' wrongful use of deadly force. She called it a "senseless murder."

    Police shot Jo Ann Burgett, 46, several times after being called to Shady Acres mobile home park. Burgett was armed with a knife that police have said she refused to drop as she approached them.

    Hmm...armed with a knife, refuses to drop it and is approaching the officers. What would any of you do? I am pretty sure I would have done the same thing based off what I know now.

    "We don't want that shooting to be covered up," Sims said. "There is more to the story. I hope the truth comes out."

    City Council members voted 8-0 during their meeting Monday to ask the FBI to get involved. Council President Darryl Buchanan will write a letter requesting oversight.

    Acting Flint Police Chief Gary Hagler said he would welcome any law enforcement review of the incident, including the FBI or any other agency. He said the state police crime lab is handling evidence in the case.

    "It is a sad state of affairs when the people have to be afraid of the police responding to a call for help," said Flint resident Steve Wall.

    With proper training, police should have been able to disarm Burgett with their bare hands, Wall said.

    WTF? Disarm a knife wielding person with your bare hands? Talk about uninformed.

    Flint City Councilman Scott Kincaid also asked the city ombudsman to look into the death, and Sims asked the administration to detail police training for use of deadly force.

    "These are systemic problems (with the police department) and we have to look at the leadership," Councilman Sheldon Neeley said. The City Council is suing Mayor Don Williamson to try to force him to name a permanent police chief.

    Sounds like this council is using a tragic incident to push an agenda.

    Hagler said nothing about the incident involving Burgett was improper and the actions of the officers were well within state and local police protocols in the use of deadly force. Police are taught and authorized to use deadly force when confronted with other weapons, Hagler said.

    Police have said one of the officers at the scene had been on the force for about one year, the other about four years. They have been placed on administrative leave, per departmental policy.

    Sims said she believes they had less experience. Sims said the police officers should have tried negotiating with Burgett or retreated until they had additional backup.

    And this is a retired cop? Shouldn't she know better?

    Please sound off here on what you think.
    "It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who have died. Rather, we should thank God such men lived." ~ General George Patton

    "It is from numberless diverse acts of courage and belief that human history is thus shaped. Each time a man stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope." ~ Robert Kennedy

  • #2
    Good grief.

    The officer had every right to defend him or herself. It sounds like good shoot. I'm not getting close to a 46 yr old lady with a knife without a gun or a tazer.

    Regardless, it sounds like the involved officer will become the sacrificial lamb to push some [email protected] politicians’ agenda.

    Now, someone could argue that the officer should have tazed her, if the officer had one. But still, if she would have gotten tazed, she would have hit her pumpkin head on the concrete and or impaled herself with the knife.

    Live or die it’s always the officer’s fault that people are stupid.

    My heart and prayers goes out to that officer. It must be tough. Be expected to do your job and then get screwed in the @ss by the same people that suppose to help and support you.

    The town councel must be filled with liberals!
    "The angle of the dangle is proportional to the heat of the meat." - Beavis

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Monster56 View Post
      Good grief.

      The officer had every right to defend him or herself. It sounds like good shoot. I'm not getting close to a 46 yr old lady with a knife without a gun or a tazer.

      Regardless, it sounds like the involved officer will become the sacrificial lamb to push some [email protected] politicians’ agenda.

      Now, someone could argue that the officer should have tazed her, if the officer had one. But still, if she would have gotten tazed, she would have hit her pumpkin head on the concrete and or impaled herself with the knife.

      Live or die it’s always the officer’s fault that people are stupid.

      My heart and prayers goes out to that officer. It must be tough. Be expected to do your job and then get screwed in the @ss by the same people that suppose to help and support you.

      The town councel must be filled with liberals!
      I wouldn't bring a taser to a knife fight... Stopping a subject charging at you with a knife using a gun isn't 100% -- a taser is going to be less so. The only way I would consider using a taser in this case is with MULTIPLE officers with lethal cover, and then only if the subject was relatively stationary.

      Non-LEOs don't understand the danger of a subject with a knife. I would think a Tuler drill demo may change a few votes on the city council...Remember the 21 foot rule.....

      Comment


      • #4
        While I think there is never a GOOD SHOOT. I do think this one was totally justified. I work for a small dept and most of the time I thank god for it especially when it comes to situations like this. I have lived in areas of the country that are pollitically at the opposite ends of the spectrum. Where I live in Kansas the public and city council love us. When I lived in Portland, OR. the public hated officers. The city council couldn't cave to special interest groups fast enough and they loved to hang good officers out to dry for any shooting involving a minority.
        It reminds me of a quote that used to hang on the wall of a warrant officer i used to work for.
        We the willing Led by the unknowing Doing the impossible For the ungrateful. We have done so much with so little for so long. We are now qualified to do anything with nothing.
        Last edited by tkuffler; 04-25-2007, 02:38 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Monster56 View Post
          Good grief.

          The officer had every right to defend him or herself. It sounds like good shoot. I'm not getting close to a 46 yr old lady with a knife without a gun or a tazer.

          Regardless, it sounds like the involved officer will become the sacrificial lamb to push some [email protected] politicians’ agenda.

          Now, someone could argue that the officer should have tazed her, if the officer had one. But still, if she would have gotten tazed, she would have hit her pumpkin head on the concrete and or impaled herself with the knife.

          Live or die it’s always the officer’s fault that people are stupid.

          My heart and prayers goes out to that officer. It must be tough. Be expected to do your job and then get screwed in the @ss by the same people that suppose to help and support you.

          The town councel must be filled with liberals!

          It must either be an election year, or she wants some publicity. Me, personally, I welcome the FBI oversight. With a member like this on the city council, would you want them to oversee the investigation? The department would undoubtedly cave in under pressure and show that the officer could've used his badge to deflect the knife wielding subject. Then he could've used his whistle chain to lasso the subject and finally tied the subject's shoelaces to render him (her?) immobile. At least that's what I would've done. Then again, I received expert training from Jackie chan.
          And I'm a liberal

          This is just one man's opinion
          Last edited by LeanG; 04-25-2007, 02:58 PM.

          A man should never be ashamed to own that he has been in the wrong, which is but saying... that he is wiser today than yesterday. Jonathan Swift 1667-1745

          It's only a conspiracy when your party is not in power.

          Comment


          • #6
            This gal might have had the title of police officer but I am quite confident that she had nada zip zero when it comes to street experience. She probably worked the tow yard or some desk job.

            And they think she should have backed off and waited for more back up? Why is that? So the person with the knife could get shot even more?

            As far as disarming the knife barehanded. Some people are simply ignorant and they prove it every time they open their mouth.

            Glad I don't work for this department.
            Prov 17:17 A friend loveth at all times, and a brother is born for adversity.

            Comment


            • #7
              Sounds like a hidden agenda to me. I think if we could peel back all the coverings we would find much more than a concern of protocall. Maybe the retired cop has a grudge (just a thought) and now she sees a prime opportunity to get revenge. Society at large has no clue what police officers face and consistantly blurt out ridiculous comments, same sad song. Its too bad these officers have to be caught in the middle of political mud slinging. I know plenty of people with the title of police officer, but as far as doing the job from the heart, well, dont hold your breath. I hope someone in the community with a little guts steps up to hold this councilwoman accountable for her disgraceful handling of what appears to be a justified shooting. She said it was wrongful according to what policy, procedure, law, statute, etc. c'mon concilwoman lets see some quoting of the text! otherwise its only her opinion and that isn't worth spit!
              I Peter 2:13 “Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; (14) Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.” Visit 10-4 Ministries

              Comment


              • #8
                There is going to be SOME factor here, which, i have the feeling might end up being racial. One of our local cities has a minority female councilwoman, who after doing time with the PD, then "Retiring" on a "Disability" now questions EVERY move they make, and is on the front lines screaming "Coverup' with everything they do..of course this particular individual didnt seem to mind that she spent her entire career protected and off the street, moving from one cushy admin position to another.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Flint is a mess. It is in the top five of the country's most dangerous cities. On top of that the mayor has wants all new hire officers to work without city retirement or union protection.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    When a City Council sues the Mayor you've got a screwed-up community. A former police calling for a Federal investigation could mean one of several things. I can think of a few reasons off the top of my head:
                    1: It's really a good shooting but nobody will believe it unless outsiders make the call.
                    2: It's a bad shooting and we'll have more of them unless the problems are exposed and corrected.
                    3: The police administration gave the former officer a raw deal and it's payback time.

                    As for someone's opinion that officers should be able to go up against a knife empty-handed, Oscar Wilde called that many years ago:There is much to be said in favour of modern journalism. By giving us the opinions of the uneducated, it keeps us in touch with the ignorance of the community.

                    In that vein, as I'm quite uneducated about the tru state of affairs in Flint, I'll decline to offer an opinion.

                    Comment

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