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Being the only Aggressive officer on your squad?

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  • #31
    I got 10 years on and some days I still feel like a rookie!
    The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The difference, though, is that the sheepdog must not, cannot and will not ever harm the sheep. Any sheepdog who intentionally harms the lowliest little lamb will be punished and removed.

    I Am the Sheepdog.


    "And maybe just remind the few, if ill of us they speak,
    that we are all that stands between
    the monsters and the weak." - Michael Marks


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    • #32
      I do all my calls (and some other folks' calls), run traffic and do my building checks. I love traffic, as I get my warrants and suspensions that way. And I get the occasional shoplifter.
      USAF VETERAN 2004-2012
      "The sheep pretend the wolf will never come, but the sheepdog lives for that day."-LTC Grossman
      MD DPSCS (Correctional Officer I)
      Civil Service Exam (9/23):

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      • #33
        Originally posted by lpstopper View Post
        If you have been on for 6 months, then yeah its expected for you to be the super active guy on the squad, if you were not very pro-active with 6 months on the job I would be worried. However as time goes on and you get more experience under your belt, perspective starts to come into play. Eventually you may realize that regardless of how many people you lock-up for whatever reason, are you actually changing anything? If your hooking up the guy responsible for all the Burglaries on your beat then yes absoultely you are solving a problem, but if you are just locking up random traffic or misd warrants then no your not changing anything.

        You also have to think about the current climate of L.E. in America. Many officers now realize that we are only one bad field contact away from making a national headline for simply doing your job, so many of us may choose to slow down on how proactive we are. Also you have to take into consideration the "politics" of your squad. If your working nights and everyone else on the squad is taking a break between 0300-0600 and you are the only one out making traffic stops especially right before EOW, that could be viewed as a problem by your squad mates. If your beat partner is posted up somewhere at 0500 and you are constantly calling off on traffic stops, your beat partner will probably get annoyed and end up having a chat with you.

        Another angle, that you many not even have experienced yet is getting screwed over by the dept. Admin. Many officers have gotten letters or suspensions for doing what they thought was the right thing or by forgetting to do something mundane like a certain piece of paperwork for an incident. Guys start realizing that they avoid department conflict and still collect a pay check regardless if they are slugs or proactive. Just my thoughts
        Good stuff.
        All Gave Some - Some Gave All

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        • #34
          Originally posted by RGDS View Post
          I will tell you that where I work, Admin will track that activity looking to write you up for excessive OT.

          Sometimes, people are slugs because Admin is oppressive.
          I was just like the OP at one time. There wasn't a year that went by when I didn't lead my shift and division (i.e. precinct) in at least half of the stats the admin tracked. Felony and misdemeanor arrests, and DUIs were all big numbers for me. Anything officer initiated was big. Despite all that, I almost always serviced the most calls for service, AND back-up calls, AND wrote the most reports. I was one busy dude, and never sat still. But I did good follow-up, too, frequently getting kudos from the various investigative units about my reports and follow-up skills.

          My admin didn't write me up for OT (but I got a talking to about it once). But I had to dial it back because they would never back us up.
          My complaints about the admin are too numerous to list here. The WHOLE department is quitting on these guys -- attrition is poor in every police department nationwide right now because of Obummer and his cronies, but my old agency is TRIPLING the national average on attrition. Last I heard, there were 16 lawsuits ongoing by cops against the department. In my exit interview, the chief laughed about it, not stopping to think there might be a systemic problem in his administration. Keith M., a well-respected member of this forum, can vouch for how my former department treats people; we are near one another.

          It got so bad, about a month before I retired I was working a high crime, high drug trafficking area. I drove past two dudes on the roadside, next to one of our roach motels, and saw them do a hand-to-hand drug transaction...

          ...oh wait, I mean I didn't see a thing whatsoever and kept driving. I didn't write a single traffic ticket in my last month, and I buried myself in a parking lot, coming out only when the dispatcher made me. Screw that place. I don't miss it one iota.


          MAC

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          • #35
            Look, I get it - you want to save the world and catch the bad guys, nothing wrong with that. Just pace yourself, being new you don't want to get in over your head tactically, and then later on legally or adminstratively.

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            • #36
              Keep crushing it, let me know how the DOJ interview goes.
              In Valor there is hope

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              • #37
                In the county where I work, there are certain areas on third shift where you might only see a handful of vehicles between 2-5 AM, so especially during the weekday with people driving to work in the morning during the last few hours of your shift is when you can get your traffic stops in. Every now and then that will turn into a warrant or arrest. It happens and it's part of the job. If the admin has a problem with that, they probably never did real police work or ever did it that well anyway. I find it hard to believe that there isn't at least a few bosses on each department who will back their guys if admin starts playing games.

                Also, in regards to the current climate of everyone walking on eggshells, my opinion is, if you don't want to work, get a different job. I can't stand the guys that do three business checks, respond to calls they're required to and do absolutely nothing else. I understand the media and a lot of society is against us but that should be motivation to study the job, know your statutes and case law, and know your department policies, and go to work motivated to do work and try and make a difference. It seems like a lot of guys have this attitude that they're going to show up to their shift and once it's done, they're not going to do anything more unless they're getting paid to do it. This job requires more than just showing up everyday. The citizens living in the communities that we work in deserve law enforcement officers that are doing their jobs everyday and are being aggressive in going after criminals, traffic violations, etc., to make communities safer. I know because this is the kind of service I expect from the police department in the city I live in and pay taxes for. And lastly, quit with the whining about your morale. It's not the job of your employer to do everything possible to make sure that you're happy all the time. You only seem to hear the morale complaint from people in government, and it's usually the same type of people in every job. Like I mentioned above, if you don't like your job, get out and do something else.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by JA9669 View Post
                  I can't stand the guys that do three business checks, respond to calls they're required to and do absolutely nothing else.
                  You mean the dependable officers out there doing their job, doing what they were trained to do? Without those guys out there doing what is expected of them, guys like you couldn't be stopping every registration plate light violation or cracked windshield they see. You wouldn't be able to chase thugs through the housing projects for a dime bag of weed or a traffic warrant. There has to be some kind of balance and this is coming from someone who used to do all of the 'fun cop stuff' and now does the boring stuff.

                  If there is a rash of business burglaries, administration in going to hear about it and it will come down to the guys on watch that they should spend less time sitting across from the local bar, waiting for that big DUI and go rattle some door knobs. You refer to officers aggressively going after criminals and stopping cars, implying that this practice makes the community a safer place. Police presence makes the community safer, checking businesses & residential areas makes the community safer and knowing what or who is out of place in your patrol area makes the community safer.

                  If those guys aren't there to respond to calls for service, heroes like you would have to do it and that would take away from doing the fun stuff you seem to enjoy. Just because some officers learned to 'pace themselves' doesn't mean that they can't or won't do the work. If you have officers who have retired on duty, I feel for you, but every department has their share. Don't confuse them with the ones who handle their calls, pull their weight and go home at their end of watch.

                  “This life’s hard, but it’s harder if you’re stupid.”

                  George V. Higgins--The Friends of Eddie Coyle

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                  • #39
                    [QUOTE=JA9669;n6429696. but that should be motivation to study the job, know your statutes and case law, and know your department policies, and go to work motivated to do work and try and make a difference. [/QUOTE]

                    Darren Wilson, and others probably did all this. Look where they are now. There are few guarantees in this world.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by JA9669 View Post
                      try and make a difference. .
                      You must be new.

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                      • #41
                        The only real difference we make is seems is padding the pockets of our respective state. The revolving door and sympathy for repeat offense at least where I work is deplorable. I just completed a case and arrest file that is an inch thick so this person can be put on probation and violate it for the 10th time? People ask me why I tint my personal vehicle windows so dark I have to roll them down to park at night. Every person I arrest ends up walking around the next day in the same area. They figure out who owns your vehicle you will have criminal mischief done to it that very day. I still get a rush when I truly get to help someone but the opportunity seems less and less frequent. At least if I get hired by the MTA police I will have contact with so many individuals that need simple information or advice I will feel like I helped someone. Remaining fresh and scraping the daily calluses off is one of the hardest parts of the job. Sometimes it will feel like everyone is attacking you, the brass, and everyone you contact on the street. Stay positive, pay attention, BE TACTICALLY SOUND, and have each others backs. There is always another arrest to be had another day. Learning the ins and outs and knowing when and how to shine takes time. If you have to hunger to produce numbers and figure out when to reign it in you will do well. Just remember you are always learning. The second you think you know everything is the day you get jammed up or worse.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by JA9669 View Post
                          In the county where I work, there are certain areas on third shift where you might only see a handful of vehicles between 2-5 AM, so especially during the weekday with people driving to work in the morning during the last few hours of your shift is when you can get your traffic stops in. Every now and then that will turn into a warrant or arrest. It happens and it's part of the job. If the admin has a problem with that, they probably never did real police work or ever did it that well anyway. I find it hard to believe that there isn't at least a few bosses on each department who will back their guys if admin starts playing games.

                          Also, in regards to the current climate of everyone walking on eggshells, my opinion is, if you don't want to work, get a different job. I can't stand the guys that do three business checks, respond to calls they're required to and do absolutely nothing else. I understand the media and a lot of society is against us but that should be motivation to study the job, know your statutes and case law, and know your department policies, and go to work motivated to do work and try and make a difference. It seems like a lot of guys have this attitude that they're going to show up to their shift and once it's done, they're not going to do anything more unless they're getting paid to do it. This job requires more than just showing up everyday. The citizens living in the communities that we work in deserve law enforcement officers that are doing their jobs everyday and are being aggressive in going after criminals, traffic violations, etc., to make communities safer. I know because this is the kind of service I expect from the police department in the city I live in and pay taxes for. And lastly, quit with the whining about your morale. It's not the job of your employer to do everything possible to make sure that you're happy all the time. You only seem to hear the morale complaint from people in government, and it's usually the same type of people in every job. Like I mentioned above, if you don't like your job, get out and do something else.


                          it really bugs me when there is a problem and one of the solutions is telling people to quit. Where is the logic in that?
                          It isn't the responsibility of the departments to throw ice cream parties with balloon animals for its officers but it is the smart thing to work with the officers to improve conditions and procedures and policies when warranted to make things work better. Instead you have officers that are in fear for their safety and the safety of their families because the departments are bowing to media pressure and throwing them under the bus at the very suggestion of improper conduct or excessive force. I don't blame officers that have come out and said they aren't going to be as aggressive when no one has their back or the back of their family when that "incident"vehicle stop is on the news and sounds a lot different then what actually happened. Your department automatically puts you on restriction and blasts your name, photo, family info and camera crews are at your house in hours broadcasting live and banging on your door.
                          There are a lot of great officers having their talents wasted because they are having their hands tied and probably many have left already. If that continues without fixing the problem and backing your officers what will you have out their in your community?

                          ​​

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by slamdunc View Post
                            You mean the dependable officers out there doing their job, doing what they were trained to do? Without those guys out there doing what is expected of them, guys like you couldn't be stopping every registration plate light violation or cracked windshield they see. You wouldn't be able to chase thugs through the housing projects for a dime bag of weed or a traffic warrant. There has to be some kind of balance and this is coming from someone who used to do all of the 'fun cop stuff' and now does the boring stuff.

                            If there is a rash of business burglaries, administration in going to hear about it and it will come down to the guys on watch that they should spend less time sitting across from the local bar, waiting for that big DUI and go rattle some door knobs. You refer to officers aggressively going after criminals and stopping cars, implying that this practice makes the community a safer place. Police presence makes the community safer, checking businesses & residential areas makes the community safer and knowing what or who is out of place in your patrol area makes the community safer.

                            If those guys aren't there to respond to calls for service, heroes like you would have to do it and that would take away from doing the fun stuff you seem to enjoy. Just because some officers learned to 'pace themselves' doesn't mean that they can't or won't do the work. If you have officers who have retired on duty, I feel for you, but every department has their share. Don't confuse them with the ones who handle their calls, pull their weight and go home at their end of watch.

                            I didn't say guys that are aggressive don't do other things that are expected of them during the shift. Obviously you need to respond to calls and do business and park checks, etc...I'm talking specifically about the guys that literally respond to something that's assigned and then go hide somewhere until the next call or until the shift ends. Those people work for every department. Also, I agree with you that we need to pace ourselves, everyone has either been that rookie or knows the guy that hasn't learned to walk before they run.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by JA9669 View Post
                              I didn't say guys that are aggressive don't do other things that are expected of them during the shift. Obviously you need to respond to calls and do business and park checks, etc...I'm talking specifically about the guys that literally respond to something that's assigned and then go hide somewhere until the next call or until the shift ends. Those people work for every department. Also, I agree with you that we need to pace ourselves, everyone has either been that rookie or knows the guy that hasn't learned to walk before they run.
                              In reality, I have only worked with an officer who was a ROD (Retired On Duty) on two occasions; that is totally different than an officer carrying his or her load and pacing himself. These guys are reluctant to even respond to radio calls, they dump calls on rookies (sometimes even supervisors) and are actually taking up valuable space on a roster. Conversely, I would almost rather they hide, as opposed to showing up on my call. If a critical task has to be delegated, I want someone dependable both for back-up AND for follow-up (canvassing, interviewing, maintaining a control log, etc.).

                              “This life’s hard, but it’s harder if you’re stupid.”

                              George V. Higgins--The Friends of Eddie Coyle

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                I don't think there is any right or wrong way to police (unless you are just lazy all around). the extremely proactive officers often do a lot of good for the community when one of their traffic stops ends up stumbling upon the armed robbery suspect or what not, but likewise the guy who just answers his calls will be the one who is actually AVAILABLE to respond quickly when something serious does happen.

                                Our precinct is pretty big on stats. I am really not a big stat guy but I try for around 20 summonses and 2-3 arrests a month just to keep the bosses happy. The guys who want to move out of patrol into specialized commands are doing a lot more than that.

                                . I'd rather stay in service and be there to answer 911 calls than shut my sector car down and leave another car to answer double the calls. It's not being lazy, because I try to go above and beyond to help the public on all of my calls instead of just being a paper pusher like many. To me, if my family called 9-11 for an emergency, I would hope that the officer was out there in his/her sector and able to respond quickly as opposed to being at the precinct processing some BS arrest and now the nearest available sector car is a distance out. The bosses love seeing us make arrests, but i have seen busy nights where half the precinct was out on arrests and now the public is waiting hours for a sector car to respond to low priority calls and sector cars are getting pulled all over the precinct to high priority calls with terrible response times.

                                A friend of mine in the sector next to me is a huge DWI guy who makes a DWI arrest just about every weekend night tour. This leaves me and the other sector cars around him to cover his sector while he's out. How could I complain though? He's getting drunk drivers off the streets and probably saving lives. If you are an active guy, just know it is going to make life more difficult for the guys around you and they may not share the same ideology as you. Some guys are accepting of that, even if it isn't the way they would like to police. Some coworker won't be and see you as the one making more work for everyone.

                                I guess really what I am saying is, you just have to strike a balance with your squad and even more, COMMUNICATE with them. A lot of guys who are active give off the impression that they don't give two craps about their colleagues and are just out to make themselves look good. Sometimes all it takes is some communication with your coworkers explaining to them WHY you like doing what you do, and asking them if they are OK with it. At least then they know that you're taking them into consideration.

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