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  • #16
    That's about how I thought (hoped) that it all went down. We hear all the time how southern cops dislike northern ones.....which is BS. But we have a duty to respond to complaints from the public, just as y'all would if the shoe was on the other foot.

    It sounds as though my brothers in the blue and grays responed to the complaints, handled it to avoid the citizen from obtaining a traffic warrant, and sent the convoy on it's way....what's the big deal?
    Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves.

    Ronald Reagan

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    • #17
      Thank you for responding.

      There are some things that you posted that I would like to comment on. First is the statement about how the "caller claimed that one of the convoy vehicles nearly struck her car and she wished to obtain a warrant against the driver" statement. Im sure we can both agree that even if that happend (I don't believe it did) that it was an accident and not on purpose. So with that being the case, I don't understand why you agency couldn't just explain to this caller that The NYPD was comming back from helping the people of NO in their time of need and would be out of VA in a short period of time and apologize for the MINOR inconveince they caused. Period. You guys are the police NOT them. Sometimes people get inconvienced by the police. Thats the way it is.

      The 2nd thing about your post is the statement of "An escort was not provided because one was not requested". It wasn't requested from any other state , however is was given by them ON THEIR OWN. WE DIDN'T HAVE TO ASK.



      Originally posted by jarobins
      I work for VSP and heard about this thread(s) and thought I would respond. As you can tell I don't post here much, mostly lurk from time to time. The incident that everyone is referring to was actually several separate incidents, unfortunately as things got passed along the incidents got blended together and exaggerated.

      A convoy of about 50 NY police vehicles (unsure if NYPD) came into VA from TN on I-81. Our dispatch had been receiving complaints about them prior to them getting into VA. The convoy was in the left lane with their lights on, which really wasn't a big deal. They also were not traveling in excess of 90 mph. The complaints from motorists were because the convoy was traveling below the speed limit and not allowing other vehicles to pass. The convoy contained several large vehicles that could not maintain their speed going uphill in the mountains. When other motorists attempted to pass the convoy in the right lane the last car would move over and block anyone from passing.This continued even after the Interstate opened up to three lanes, at which time the convoy continued to block anyone from passing and occupied all three lanes.

      We received numerous calls about the subsequent traffic backup but did not respond until a caller claimed that one of the convoy vehicles nearly struck her car and she wished to obtain a warrant against the driver. This is allowed in VA and at that point we were required to do something. It was compounded by the fact that on that evening a speed project was operating and every time the caller saw a Trooper she called back demanding to know why we were not doing something.

      Eventually a supervisor caught up to the convoy and attempted to stop the lead car. The last car even attempted to block our unit (who had on his lights and siren) from passing. Finally he stopped the lead car because it was expected that the highest ranking NY officer would be at the front of the convoy. Upon contacting the NY supervisor he advised him of the complaints that we had received. He requested that the convoy move to the right lane and allow other traffic to pass. He did not threaten to charge anyone, nor was the possibility of charges mentioned. The convoy was then allowed to proceed on its way, with its lights still activated. Our supervisor then had to meet with the caller who claimed she was cut off and talk her out of trying to get a warrant for the driver she alleged cut her off.

      I don't see as how we did anything wrong, as we had to do something. I think our supervisor handled it very professionally and did what he had to do. An escort was not provided because one was not requested. I don't see that it would have been possible anyway. At the time the convoy came through it was about time for shift change and out in the mountains there is typically only one Trooper working per county. We had several convoys come thru headed back home that night and could not tie up the only Trooper working escorting the convoys. Then it also gets into a political decision as to deciding how big a convoy must be to warrant an escort.

      The letter posted from our Lt. Col is accurate in that a convoy was stopped in Augusta by a Deputy for excessive speed. Another smaller convoy had beed stopped by a Trooper earlier that night. The Trooper was on a traffic stop on the right shoulder when a convoy passed him traveling 85-100 mph in the right lane while he was outside his car issuing a ticket coming within a foot or two of him. The convoy could have moved over but didn't. Another Trooper stopped the convoy and asked them to show US a little courtesy and check up on their speed and move over for Troopers on traffic stops. They were let go, again with no threats of tickets. This same convoy was then stopped in Augusta County by a Deputy for traveling in excesss of 90 mph. I don't the details of this stop as it isn't my agency.

      I fail to see how we acted inappropriately. The convoys (and 911 calls) put us in a bad position and not the other way around. For those bashing the VSP I'm sure this won't change things.

      Comment


      • #18
        lets remember we are all on the same team guys....what happens in NY wont be the same as what happens in VA...and vice versa.....surely egos got in the way a bit, and that happens everywhere

        nobody went to jail, nobody got a ticket, I wasn't there but it sounds like the Troopers had to at least try to cover their butt if they got repeated calls.....stopping the 'convoy' might be the best thing in order to keep the useless citizen with nothing better to do from calling in again and again
        -do your job, do it right, win the fight, go home!

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by ilkevinli
          Thank you for responding.

          So with that being the case, I don't understand why you agency couldn't just explain to this caller that The NYPD was comming back from helping the people of NO in their time of need and would be out of VA in a short period of time and apologize for the MINOR inconveince they caused. Period. You guys are the police NOT them. Sometimes people get inconvienced by the police. Thats the way it is.

          The 2nd thing about your post is the statement of "An escort was not provided because one was not requested". It wasn't requested from any other state , however is was given by them ON THEIR OWN. WE DIDN'T HAVE TO ASK.
          The caller demanded that we stop and ID the driver. We didn't call her. She continued to call until we stopped the convoy and even then stopped behind the convoy waiting for us to assist her in obtaining a warrant. She even complained about the NYPD officers that exited their cars and proceeded to urinate in plain view on the shoulder of the interstate. Thanks for making our job easier. Pure and simple, we stopped the convoy because we were doing our job. Thanks for being grateful that we did not allow her to try and obtain a warrant. Accident or not, it wouldn't have happened if the convoy wasn't blocking the entire interstate while going below the speed limit. The drive thru VA to NY is over 300 miles, it is not a short trip even going the speed limit. The caller had been trapped behind the convoy since Knoxville, TN. This same convoy even attempted to block our own unit from passing while he had his lights and siren activated. Most rationale people would agree that it is a little ridiculous to expect that nobody is going to pass you for 300 miles.

          As for the second part. Maybe I'm naive or just have a Trooper's mentality, but why do you need an escort? I could understand if if were for different circumstances or even if you were headed southbound immediately after the storm. But going back home?

          Nobody disrespected NYPD, we were doing our jobs.

          Comment


          • #20
            Thats the point I am trying to understand about the mentality of the VA PD. You shouldn't be asking "WHY" would we need an escort. We didn't. The point is it was extended as COURTESY for fellow officers. It would help because it would deter people from trying to break up the convoy which is the whole reason the lead car had its lights on. Even with the lights on, people STILL tried cutting in between the convoy.

            Let me say something else. Who cares what the "caller" demanded. You are the police. Not the caller. I would have loved for the caller to demand a warrent for the driver and have your people lock the NYPD personal up after helping the people of NO in their time of need. That really would have been wonderful. Thank for the COURTESY


            Originally posted by jarobins
            The caller demanded that we stop and ID the driver. We didn't call her. She continued to call until we stopped the convoy and even then stopped behind the convoy waiting for us to assist her in obtaining a warrant. She even complained about the NYPD officers that exited their cars and proceeded to urinate in plain view on the shoulder of the interstate. Thanks for making our job easier. Pure and simple, we stopped the convoy because we were doing our job. Thanks for being grateful that we did not allow her to try and obtain a warrant. Accident or not, it wouldn't have happened if the convoy wasn't blocking the entire interstate while going below the speed limit. The drive thru VA to NY is over 300 miles, it is not a short trip even going the speed limit. The caller had been trapped behind the convoy since Knoxville, TN. This same convoy even attempted to block our own unit from passing while he had his lights and siren activated. Most rationale people would agree that it is a little ridiculous to expect that nobody is going to pass you for 300 miles.

            As for the second part. Maybe I'm naive or just have a Trooper's mentality, but why do you need an escort? I could understand if if were for different circumstances or even if you were headed southbound immediately after the storm. But going back home?

            Nobody disrespected NYPD, we were doing our jobs.

            Comment


            • #21
              jarobins,

              I'm curious- were you on scene during the incident? If not, is it possible you were given the sanitized version of what the on scene Trooper said/did?

              IMO it would have been a nice gesture for a VA Trooper to provide an escort, a "kiss the ring" request should not have been necessary on the part of NYPD.

              I agree with the previous poster who noted that this whole misunderstanding could have been avoided if the VA SP provided an escort like most/all of the other State Police agencies did.
              Disclaimer: The writer does not represent any organization, employer, entity or other individual. The first amendment protected views/commentary/opinions/satire expressed are those only of the writer. In the case of a sarcastic, facetious, nonsensical, stirring-the-pot, controversial or devil's advocate-type post, the views expressed may not even reflect those of the writer.

              Comment


              • #22
                I was not on scene, but I know the supervisor who was. I have no reason to doubt him, plus it was all recorded on video. I don't doubt that an escort would have been helpful, but it is not our policy. Question someone higher up than me about that. As I stated earlier, it may have done if NYPD had given us advance notice. Nobody asked you kiss the ring. We simply did not have the manpower that time of night to accomodate every agency passing thru VA on their way back home.

                As for not responding to the call, I call BS. If a 911 caller calls and says they have a prowler, but you know the caller is mental and calls it in every night, you still would go to the call. This situation is not that different, we didn't stop the convoy initially because we weren't that concerned. It was only after we received repeated complaints that any action was taken. Is NYPD going to handle the IA complaint for us if we didn't act? We can't deny a request for service just because we don't agree with the caller.

                I can't explain the situation any clearer. Some people will find fault no matter how we handled it. However, we did not create the problem. We did the best we could given the circumstances and policies that we had to operate under.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Nobody went in the book....what else do you want? If a citizen files a complaint, you're obligated to investigate it....especially when the complainant is as aggravating as this one was.

                  Unlike NY, appearently, we can't just tell people to F-off....we're the police and we'll do as we please.

                  By the way, the VSP sent troopers to the damaged areas too. While the NYPD, as always, went to help, that doesn't mean we can ignore what the citizen was complaining about.

                  I'm sorry VSP couldn't s%$t a trooper for an escort, but I'm sure if they knew in advance, they would have made sure one was available.

                  The brotherhood is a two way street....don't put another officer into a position where he is obligated to act....then when he does and doesn't write anyone, bitch about it afterward.

                  Can we end the family fued now please??
                  Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves.

                  Ronald Reagan

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Your comparing a known EDP (mental person) with sworn Police officers in MARKED police cars ? You can't be serious.

                    I never said you should IGNORE the caller. I simply said that the VA PD could have eaisly explained to the caller that the "NYPD personnel are returing home from NO after helping them for 2 hard tiring weeks, away from their families, and are on their way home. We and the NYPD are sorry for any inconvience you are being caused and they will be out of VA shortly. Thank you for your understanding. "


                    I see no need for them to have pulled over the caravan.


                    Originally posted by jarobins
                    As for not responding to the call, I call BS. If a 911 caller calls and says they have a prowler, but you know the caller is mental and calls it in every night, you still would go to the call. This situation is not that different, we didn't stop the convoy initially because we weren't that concerned. It was only after we received repeated complaints that any action was taken. Is NYPD going to handle the IA complaint for us if we didn't act? We can't deny a request for service just because we don't agree with the caller.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by ilkevinli
                      Your comparing a known EDP (mental person) with sworn Police officers in MARKED police cars ? You can't be serious.
                      I'm comparing two calls for service that before you go on them you know they are bogus. However, no matter what you have to answer the call. Obviously things are different in NY, here we can't pick and chose which calls to answer.

                      Another scenario would be a complaint comes in about loud noise and you know that the address the complainant gave is a police officer from another jurisdiction. In VA after receiving numerous complaints we would ask the officer to turn down the music. I guess in NY you would apologize for inconvenience, tell the caller that the officer is having a party because he just got back from New Orleans and that the party will end eventually so they can just get over it.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Thanks

                        Thanks for the response jarobins, other posts have asked the questions I had wanted to ask.
                        I hear that not only in this incident but other times VSP summons other LEOs. Is this true? when they're in marked patrol cars? I can't seem to believe this. Officers going to Memorial week in DC in marked patrol cars getting summonses?
                        I understand we didn't receive a summons in the caravan, but it could have been handled without stopping the caravan.
                        Is there such a thing as courtesy in VA, is it even extended to other VA officers?
                        When I stop another officer and I see his ID, the stop is over right there, "Have a good day!" maybe BS a bit if he's from another agency, but never given a summons. I don't drive where I would get pulled over but the thought makes you want to just go around VA if ever heading in that direction.
                        Don't give up control for speed.
                        Wear your vest, Wear your seatbelt.
                        My heart goes out to the victims and their families of the 9/11/01 tragedy. You are all in my prayers, "Gone But not Forgotten".

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          If a major part of the problem was that the convoy was traveling under the speed limit, what would the VSP response been if they were travelling over the speed limit? If they were traveling under the speed limit. eouldn't ms. good citizen have passed the convoy if she just maintained the speed limit in the right lane, or is that against the law in VA?

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Dinosaur32
                            If a major part of the problem was that the convoy was traveling under the speed limit, what would the VSP response been if they were travelling over the speed limit? If they were traveling under the speed limit. eouldn't ms. good citizen have passed the convoy if she just maintained the speed limit in the right lane, or is that against the law in VA?
                            From what i read in the previous posts, it seems like people tried, and the last vehicle in the convoy moved over and blocked it

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Regardless of all the "I heard this" and "I heard that" I have one thing to say. Now be warned that this is my opinion and mine alone.......


                              VIRGINIA SUCKS!!!!

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                If VSP just provided an escort, there would not have been any problem. a vsp trooper stated that they do not have the manpower to provide escorts. I feel 75 marked units from an agency doing a good deed after a natural disaster such as katrina, should have gotten one. pay overtime. Virgina is not that poor to pay a Trooper OT. I'm sure they do it for other things. Screw the politics. Now VSP has to explain there way out of it and this has caused a little bad blood between the two agencies. should never had happened.
                                retired, NOT retarded

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