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  • Federal "Law Enforcement"

    First of all let me say Hello, and second I am new around here as far as posting and reading the forum, but I plan on checking it out at least twice a week. With that said.

    Who out there are Federal "Law Enforcement"?
    And of those who are; can you say you truly love your job?
    I have worked for two Federal "Police" Depts. now and am beginning to think all Federal jobs fall short as far as "Police" operations etc.
    Jamie

    PS I have ten years total Federal service counting military time so I really don't want to go to a city or state job, but I would really like to find a Federal "Law Enforcement" job that I at least enjoy getting up everyday and going too.

  • #2
    I think your looking at a very broad subject since there are a ton of LE jobs in the federal government. Just about every agency you can think of has some type of LE position, so its really who would you like to work for, then you can find out whether they have any LE positions.

    edit: btw, just reread your post, and yes, most federal jobs fall short of what is considered normal day LE work. My LE work consist of an agency who never arrest anybody for the most part because its to much of a pain to have them escorted all the way to a federal magistrate, so instead turn them over to local authorities ect..
    Last edited by lifesaving123; 09-05-2005, 09:04 PM.

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    • #3
      What agency do you work for? The agency I work for (Border Patrol) is definitely busy work-wise and arrest wise, but the scope of our authorities is very narrow. I guess it all depends on what you are looking for in a job. If you like a large volume of work, Border Patrol is good, as long as you don't get upset with the fact that U.S. immigration policy is a joke. It is defintely not conventional police work, but tracking people trough the brush at night is a lot of fun. I think if you want more power/general arrest authority maybe National Park Service/LE Park rangers might be the way to go. Another option is putting your time in at your current job and applying for an 1811 ciminal investigator position. It all depends on what you are looking for in a job.

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      • #4
        I was with the Veteran Affairs for 4 years, moved on to the Dept. of Interior, Bureau of Reclamation/ Hoover Dam Police. I am not too keen on moving to a border state so BP is not really a thought. I do plan on going the 1811 route I am just biding my time until I have GS7 a year so I can apply for the GS9 slots. Both the VA and Hoover seems to be ran by non-law enforcement personnel ie. Doctors now Engineers, which puts a strain on Officer's who want to actually work instead of sitting around projecting an image of "heightened security". I thought about Forest service or Park ranger but I don't want to get into the same thing different dept. routine. I'm just looking for some Federal LE Officer's who can say Yeah my Dept. is nice, Chief is looking out for us and we do actually work.
        Thanks again.
        Jamie

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        • #5
          How does the GS pay scale translate to rank? For example, does GS 5-7 = police officers, GS 9 = sergeants, etc... Or is this different for each fed agency???
          Guns don't kill people. Chuck Norris kills People.

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          • #6
            Translations

            The GS payscale is Government Service, which distinguishes you from Civil Service government jobs. In reply to the first person, whom asked about Fed Law Enforcment Jobs. Some Fed LE jobs even though are Federal are limited in scope of duties, like the Border Patrol Person said. But, Federal Still means Federal authority. This may just confuse the issue, but maybe this example of courts (and the officers will help).Their is a differance between federal jurisdiction and state jurisdiction. For instance as an example a murderer travels interstate (like say a serial killer) now, if caught, like the sniper case recently, or a kidnapping case. The basic rule that determines whether a criminal case should be filed and tried in federal or state court; if the act is a violation of state law, the trial will be held in a state court. (and will be processed by local law enforcement),if the violation is of federal law, the trial will be in fed court (taken care of by fed officers),; A crime that violates both like the above case I spoke of, (things like kidnapping, transportation of narcotics, counterfeiting, or robbery of a federally insured bank), may be tried in both federal and state courts (by LE in both areas of jurisdiction) if the prosecutors so desire. There is no double jeopardy because of the concept of Dual Sovereignty: Federal and State Governments are considered sovereign each in their own right. The double jeopardy prohibition (the rule that no person be punished for the same offense more than once?) applies only to successive prosecutions for the same offense by the SAME sovereign jurisdictions. By dual sovereignty, federal and state governments constitute two seperate sovereignties. Double Jeopardy does not apply. Look it up, it's very interesting. However, this is rearly done. Usually one will bow to the other. THey will usually try the person for crimes, in the JURISDICTION, and Venue, where they have the best case on them. Often they will let the state's charge the suspects. Then go along with that ruling. Unless that outcome is so against what the system will tolerate, they will let the decision stand. Remember the Rodney King case? The first trial took place under CA jurisdiction and all four officers were acquitted. About a year later, they were tried again by federal prosecutors in LA for essentially the same act, but under federal law. Two of the officers were convicted. But, their was no double jeopardy because of the two sovereignties-state and federal.

            As far as J who started this thread, good luck looking for Fed LE jobs. The qualifications and job interviews and everything that goes along with it is a nighmare (don't forget the polygraph). I still have nightmares about breathing into the tube, trying to hold up the (ping pong) ball up for over 90 seconds. I think they gave me he astronaut tests.LOL But, really, look for jobs that say 1800 position. They will be listed as eighteen hundred jobs. When you log onto the Dept of Justice sight (www.fbi.gov) or The Federal Law Enforcement Officers Sight (www.FLEOA.org), it will explian more of what an eighteen hundred is. Federal Law Enforcement, such as FBI has nationwide authority, given by the attorney general of the united states. So whatever state they send you to you have automatic authority their, although you still have to check in as a couresy with local PD etc. Never, underestimate local PD, they have the inside track on everything and are indispensible. The biggest difference in Fed LE and Local LE is the amount of education (baccalaureate degree or higher), and trianing. For Fed LE you will be at the academy and trianing constantly (not that good local PD don't), But, for instance in my area, the local, even the state trianing for your badge is a matter of weeks, for Fed LE it's 6 and 1/2 months at the academy, then year of probation, which if you pass (including multiple language skills etc), you will go back to the academy for advanced trianing, then again for trianing in a specialty should you decide to specialize. Like in DNA forensic criminalistics. Ballistics, Firearms examination, or a million other areas. That local PD don't specialize in. One discliamer I will say is that the Local PD in my area, are just as trianed and educated as the Feds. They most have multiple degrees, and stay up with trianing that would put most Feds to sham. They deal with about 50 times the cases, and are deffinatly in more danger all the time as opposed to the Feds in the area. They are exposed to gangs, drugs, crazy drivers, and a million crimes, and violations that Feds don't have to put up with. I love the bunch of bum's. They are Number one as far as I am concerned. Good luck with becoming a local or Fed officer. You know what I mean, a new position in those areas. I am sure you wll do well, because those that ask alot of questions are the ones that do well. The only dum question is the one that is not asked.

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            • #7
              Jquise as someone who was a federal police officer also for both the VA and DoD, I understand your frustrations.

              Most federal police jobs are security related and you have no arrest authority off of the property. The federal government if you remember from both LETC and FLETC legal holds no police authority as that is the state's right.

              Have you thought about applying for GS5/7 1811 jobs? Alot of agencies do hire 1811's at the 5/7 level. Also are you going to school or improving yourself in anyways for when you decide to jump ship?

              As far as J who started this thread, good luck looking for Fed LE jobs. The qualifications and job interviews and everything that goes along with it is a nighmare (don't forget the polygraph). I still have nightmares about breathing into the tube, trying to hold up the (ping pong) ball up for over 90 seconds. I think they gave me he astronaut tests.LOL But, really, look for jobs that say 1800 position
              If you read in the beginning, he is a federal employee. Also not every federal agency utilitizes the polygraph (actually only about 7 or 8 use them). Only 2 agencies require a degree (FBI and NCIS).
              I don't answer recruitment messages....

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              • #8
                Two degree's. Also required for 1811 jobs with ICE and all the other 1811 jobs Ive looked at. Most Fed jobs do require the polygraph now. Especially 1811 positions. Just talked to a few guys from ICE. Also, local PD in the forum are always bitching about the poly. Do you think they are just using that as an excuse for why they were not hired? Could be, but who knows?

                Look at all the 1811 posts out their on the bulletin boards. Most will say Bacc degree or equivalant experience, Unless your talking about a fed screener at the airport with only authority their?

                Feds at least FBI have nationwide authority. The rest, even though the ID will say "and all other laws as stated by the atty gen of the US" really, your boss will tell you, keep it where you live. Like the Border Patrol Guy. Unless the Life of him and his fellow officers, or civilians are in jeopardy. Then on or off duty, your supposed to respond. Even then they tell you, "we would rather have a live witness with good ID experience then a dead employee".

                The Fed officers I know that work for the VA, they work for the VA (if you mean veterans affairs), but can only use their authority on the VA grounds. Thats a little different than the FBI. I think the ID card will say it all. It says the limits of your authority.

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                • #9
                  I have been checking the 1811 jobs recently. I have my BS in Criminal Justice already and feel I am just wasting my time in my current position. Although it is LEO retirement which is the whole reason I took it. As stated above just looking for some Federal LEO here who says "Yeah my Dept. is really good".


                  Ohh and I work for the Dept. of Interior not the Dept. of Defense.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by orlandofed5-0
                    Only 2 agencies require a degree (FBI and NCIS).
                    Not so. All of the "Special Agent" jobs require at least a bachelor's degree, and many of the outfits won't even talk to you unless you have a grad degree or some special skill they need (foreign languages are popular). The U.S. Marshals Service requires at least an AA degree, and most of the marshals I have know have had four year degrees. Last I heard, DEA required not only a four year degree, but you had to have a 3.3 or better GPA.

                    Criminal justice is probably not the best field of study to prepare for these jobs (and this is coming from a former CJ professor). Accounting is a good choice, as most major cases have a significant money component. Fields like political science, philosophy, English literature, and history are good because they require a lot of reading, synthesizing, writing and critical thinking.

                    I have been advised by a forum member that I was wrong about all Special Agent positions requiring a four year degree. The member is an ATF agent and advised that a combination of education and experience short of a four year degree is qualifying. Thanks for setting me straight.
                    Last edited by Tim Dees; 09-07-2005, 12:46 PM. Reason: Correction
                    Tim Dees, now writing as a plain old forum member, his superpowers lost to an encounter with gold kryptonite.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Tim Dees
                      Not so. All of the "Special Agent" jobs require at least a bachelor's degree, and many of the outfits won't even talk to you unless you have a grad degree or some special skill they need (foreign languages are popular). The U.S. Marshals Service requires at least an AA degree, and most of the marshals I have know have had four year degrees

                      Tim as someone who works in a quasi Fed LE agency (Iam a tribal cop in South Fl.), I can tell you that the GS System is set up so that you can have education or experience or both. For a GS-05 which is the minimum for almost 90% of the LE jobs with Uncle Sugar, you can have a 4 year degree or I think its 1 years experience equivalent to the the GS-04 level. Only NCIS and the FBI require a degree as the minimum education as required to make an application within the agency. The only other time an agency would except relevant education is if the job falls under what is known as the Outstanding Scholar (OS) program.

                      The USMS is currently only testing military personnel for the 0082, deputy marshal series. TO be an 1811 series Marshal, you must either be a current 1811 series or be an 0082 and I think have a minimum of 2 years of service. A current Marshal can give you a better prosepective.
                      Last edited by orlandofed5-0; 09-07-2005, 06:52 AM.
                      I don't answer recruitment messages....

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        feds

                        The Army assinged me to DIA and ATF. I had been working with CAS and had the clearances. If you do not understand that, don`t ask.
                        When BATF was formed they did not know much about small arms or demolitions. I do. It was either that or some staff puke job. I was not going to get another command so soon.
                        I know the ATF`s reputation, which is well deserved. But I did not see it in field agents. One used to drive F4`s for the Navy. I would say rhe same about the FBI. It is the supervisors that are most of the problem.
                        The last time I counted there were 77 fed agencies with gun toting branches. There would be more now.
                        The happist feds that I knew worked for Customs or the USBP. FBI agenrts vary.
                        You need to learn passable Spanish for the BP and the pay value depends upon where you are assigned. You can`t afford San Ysidro, but the action is El Paso. Foxtrot is based there. Being able to keep a horse between you and the ground still has value.

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                        • #13
                          Postal Inspector's also require a 4 year degree.
                          No man is justified in doing evil on the grounds of expediency. - Theodore Roosevelt, The Strenuous Life: Essays and Addresses (1900)

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Washingtonian
                            How does the GS pay scale translate to rank? For example, does GS 5-7 = police officers, GS 9 = sergeants, etc... Or is this different for each fed agency???
                            Try this:: http://www.opm.gov/oca/05tables/indexLEO.asp
                            Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein

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                            • #15
                              DEA requires BA/BS degree and 3-5 years of work experience. Prior to Karen Tandy, who now wants finance degrees, it was "ANY degree and ANY GPA" plus 3-5 years of uniformed patrol LE experience. We have LOTS of LAPD, Dallas, NYPD, Miami PD, Border Patrol, Highway Patrol guys.

                              DEA realizes that Day-1 on the job, when you hit a crack house or are on a buy/bust for 50 kilos on the street, it better not be the first time you ever used your handcuffs.

                              DEA also has no silly math tests or require you to solve GMAT questions prior to the interview.....other agencies (I won't mention them) DO have those....again, we are ex-cops with degrees, if you want to hang out with Phds in International Affairs or a bunch of lawyers, you need to apply somewhere else

                              Any cops with a BS/BA degree, ANY GPA, and 3-5 years (or 2.8 years, dont split hairs) of law enforcement time, please apply.

                              disregard the public website "minimums", APPLY anyway, let THEM tell you no

                              good luck

                              PS - If you think the "bullsh1t" in local law enforcement, the politics, the kiss-*** games, etc etc don't exist in federal LE, you are in for a surprise. Also, the flexibility when you and your partner stopped a car and arrested 6 bangers, by yourselves, that is gone. To do that, you need triple approval thru the entire chain of command. 80% of your time in Fed LE is writing reports, memos, etc, subpoening (sp) records, interviewing people, etc, and 20% is "action". Your most fun days are RIGHT NOW, in uniform, on patrol. Trust me on this.

                              The federal pay and benefits is very good, obviously, and I invite everyone to investigate the various 1811 agencies and make an informed decision.
                              Last edited by satpak77; 12-20-2005, 09:59 AM.

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