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  • Garbage Man
    replied
    You know what? This is my final post on this topic. I can see clearly that those who get it, get it and those who don't, wont.

    SA13 your question will never be answered and neither will mine. the truth is these guys aren't in these club in spite of the way they imitate the OMG's they are in it because they do. that's why they cant answer a simple question because the answer is obvious and they know it.

    Of course they could change the close resemblances they have to OMG's and of course they know that not doing so is harmful to us and lowers the publics ability to tell the difference between us and them. But they are grown men playing a game.. they want to play biker boys and pretend they are real badasses, they know exactly what they are doing and they want to keep doing it and that requires self denial, that's why they get so angry at simple questions. These questions have only one answer and they cant face that.

    In the past I have said I would stop but I have continued because people made points and I felt it rude not to respond.. but now I don't care about being rude anymore. I am done.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by SA13 View Post
    If that's was an apology I'm the Pope.

    However, I'm starting to think your behavior, with that being a primary example, is supporting my point about the type of people (and their attitudes) that are attracted to the "cop clubs."
    Bingo.

    Leave a comment:


  • SA13
    replied
    Originally posted by Blue Knights MC View Post
    I understand full well that there is a line. I wish to take this time to apologize. I should not have asked if you are often called a *****. That was me being passive aggressive and that is certainly not my nature. What I should have done was to have said it outright.
    Originally posted by Blue Knights MC View Post
    Gee, garbage guy.
    I offered you an apology.
    If that's was an apology I'm the Pope.

    However, I'm starting to think your behavior, with that being a primary example, is supporting my point about the type of people (and their attitudes) that are attracted to the "cop clubs."

    Leave a comment:


  • SA13
    replied
    Blue Knights MC, this is not just about the patch, or just about your club - at least to me. To me it has to do with the behaviors I've seen from members of a variety of cop clubs, and as I said I have little experience with the Blue Knights, but I have had more experience with other clubs. The patch is just a symptom of a larger problem.

    These clubs attract a lot of guys who have a weird fascination with the OMGs, and again not in a professional sense as trying to combat those criminal organizations. In addition to the patch the clubs often incorporate other parts of the OMG culture into their organization, and many members have tried to ingratiate themselves to various OMGs. As I said before the problem was alluded to by IMachU and even by 1042 Trooper, who is on your side in this debate. Myself and other cops have witnessed it, and see it as a problem.

    However, you refuse to see that there are problems with the way these organizations have structured themselves, and that their CHOICE to adopt symbols strongly associated with the OMGs (in addition to the other problems I mentioned) does create a problem.

    I notice that I've mentioned it twice and you refuse to address it, so I'll try a third time:

    I'd like you to seriously consider this, if you guys in the "cop clubs" can't even convince other cops you're not trying to imitate OMGs, and in many cases suck up to OMGs, what kind of message do you think you're sending to people outside the LE community?

    I guarantee it's not the message you claim you want to send.

    Leave a comment:


  • 1042 Trooper
    replied
    Well, one thing's for sure, BK. Ya gotta love Californians. They never let you down.

    This, is why I left it behind so many years ago.

    They can't take yes for an answer!

    Leave a comment:


  • Garbage Man
    replied
    As this point in time I am so disgusted with you I will just let you argue with yourself

    Originally posted by Blue Knights MC View Post
    Gee, garbage guy.
    I offered you an apology.
    I wish to take this time to apologize. I should not have asked if you are often called a *****. That was me being passive aggressive and that is certainly not my nature. What I should have done was to have said it outright.

    Leave a comment:


  • Blue Knights MC
    replied
    Gee, garbage guy.
    I offered you an apology.

    Leave a comment:


  • Garbage Man
    replied
    I wonder in all honesty whom the Blue Knights would be more bothered by, me, for having a problem with the clubs similar appearance to an OMG, or you, for calling a fellow officer a ***** rather than answer a simple question, all while using their name as your ID and logo. Do you really think you have improved the reputation of your club with your consistent unprofessional behavior?

    Leave a comment:


  • Blue Knights MC
    replied
    Originally posted by Garbage Man View Post
    BK...well if you cant guess what I have to say to you then there is no point in my saying it now...you just dont seem to understand that there is a line.
    I understand full well that there is a line. I wish to take this time to apologize. I should not have asked if you are often called a *****. That was me being passive aggressive and that is certainly not my nature. What I should have done was to have said it outright. I think the moment has passed, therefore I won't do that now.

    You say:
    This thread got boring, not because there was nothing to debate, it got boring because it turned into an insult slinging argument by the people who are members of the POMG's and were not going to hear any criticism of it.
    First off the difference between a motorcycle club and a motorcycle "gang" has full well been established. You refuse to admit the difference is there.
    Your (and others) only argument which has any value is a minute one anyway, the three patch logo. You have so concerned yourself with sewn fabric that you have blinded yourself from being able to see past it. It has become your entire argument. You even said that you would consider joining the Blue Knights if they would change their logo. First, fat chance and second , why would you consider joining in the first place? If all the Blue Knights does is to "ape" or mimic criminal organizations why would you even consider it. A chameleon can change its spots right? Oh, so if the Knights change to a logo more fitting to you, they would no longer be "aping" OMG's OK. Your full of it.

    Tell you what; I want to you to do two things.
    Next month seek out your closest Hells Angel chapter president and inform him that you would like to attend a meeting to see what they are all about.
    If the ball peen hammers don't come flying out and they allow you to walk away, seek out a chapter of the Blue Knights and tell them the same thing.
    Now after this is all said and done, come back and tell me next month what you got out of the Blue Knights meeting. Even if they read all of your posts here, they would welcome you and hope you would change your mind.

    Aping criminal motorcycle gangs, yeah....OK.

    Leave a comment:


  • Garbage Man
    replied
    Fine..hopefully the next time we disagree on something you will try not to become so emotionaly involved. I think there is value is discusing things we disagee on but not if it is going to quickly become a stalmate because everybody has inserted their ego into the debate. Debates are fun arguments are boring. This thread got boring, not because there was nothing to debate, it got boring because it turned into an insult slinging argument by the people who are members of the POMG's and were not going to hear any criticism of it.

    BK...well if you cant guess what I have to say to you then there is no point in my saying it now...you just dont seem to understand that there is a line.

    Peace out

    Leave a comment:


  • 1042 Trooper
    replied
    BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.

    This horse is beaten to death. Can we all just bury it and go home now?

    Blue Knights - put your knees in the breeze and disprove the "outlaw" image some have given you unjustly, even though your sworn to protect others with your life. Especially brother cops.

    Garbage Man, collect your garbage as the stalwart hero you are and spew forth your opinion of fellow heros who ride scooters with patches you find offensive. It's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

    SA13 - You too. Carry on.

    Either way, we're in this together guys. Remember that.

    Peace

    Leave a comment:


  • Garbage Man
    replied
    Originally posted by Outshined
    A few things OMG do as regular course of business:

    Sell drugs, carry illegal firearms, fight with other "gangs", break the law.

    Blue Knights: none of the above.

    I poster on this subject says BK is trying to imitate OMG. In reality it is just the opposite. BK's were founded in part as a alternative to OMG. Showing the public that there is a possibility to belong to a like minded group and still obey the law and have respect for your fellow human being.
    So the message to the public is you can look like an OMG and not be a bad guy? Did you ever think that maybe thats the opposite message from what we want to the public to hear when we are asking for funding to target the OMG's?

    As for the public they seem to not have our problem in knowing the difference. they have numerous riding clubs that dont copy the OMG's at all. Some are informal some arent, none of them coopy the OMG logo or appearance at all. I think we should be learning from them.

    Leave a comment:


  • SA13
    replied
    So now I've got to be a member of something to criticize them?

    I guess I can't criticize the actions of members of the Surenos, Hells Angels, 211, Crips, Mongols, Aryan Brotherhood, GKI, KKK, Bloods, etc, etc, because I haven't been a member of those groups either.

    Regardless, I'll say it again I've seen up and close and personal how many members of the the "cop clubs" act. I've seen how many of them are trying to imitate the style and culture of the OMGs, and I've seen many of them sucking up to the OMGs. Even 1042 Trooper alluded to the problem of what kind of people are attracted to those clubs, as did IMachU when talking about his experience with the Choir Boys.

    Also, the charity runs don't negate the negative issues that go along with those clubs. I'll also point out that Sonny Barger got the HAMC doing charity runs to improve their image with the ignorant masses, long before the cop clubs were around.

    So we're back to my statement at the top of this page:

    I'd like you guys who are defending the "cop clubs" to seriously consider this:

    If you guys in the "cop clubs" can't even convince other cops you're not trying to imitate OMGs, and in many cases suck up to OMGs, what kind of message do you think you're sending to people outside the LE community?

    I guarantee it's not the message you claim you want to send.
    Last edited by SA13; 10-16-2007, 03:35 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Blue Knights MC
    No, Garbage Man you are wrong.
    [/I]
    I just wonder, are you often called a *****? Because you are certainly acting like you have probably heard the word once or twice.
    Quite harsh. A bit too harsh for cops to be doing to other cops. Not cool.

    Leave a comment:


  • Garbage Man
    replied
    Trooper nobody on this thread is going to see your point.

    you have trivialized valid issues and used confrontational responses to obscure the reality that I and many others have come to realize...some cops have fallen for the mistaken belief that bad guys are cool.

    Obviously you have far too much of your ego attached to this issue or you would not have even posted your last response. I feel very strongly that others will see your last post as a shameless endorsement of something that is clearly wrong.

    The issue is clear, don't flatter crooks by copying them. To suggest that my concern over copying the specific appearance of OMG patches by having a logo, surrounded by rockers, that indicates club and chapter, is the same thing as being opposed to all patches period, is just an argumentative response. You're no longer trying to be right you are trying to win an argument, and you have reached the point where you will say anything.

    You once called me wound too tight. Read your last post and tell me if you don't at least sound very uptight and angry. You asked me a question and I showed you respect by answering it. Then you responded with a rant taking everything I said to a ridiculous extreme.

    Yes, some symbols are wrong to display publicly. They have been associated with something negative and are therefore hurtful. Should there be a law banning them? No there should not be...can someone go about displaying them and consider themselves still a good person...no they can't.

    How many chapters of the Blue Knights have you been associated with? How do you know there aren't more chapters that have the same problems as the one you started?

    Isn't it possible that we might have a point? You don't have to agree with our point but you can still show us our due respect.

    Should I even respond to the idea that I don't have the right to criticize practices of a club if I don't join it? Can you really think that? So I can't be against the Nazi party, the socialist party? I have to join a club that does something I disagree with before I can criticize it. I guess I will have to join the Hells Angels next too, think I would be allowed in the Crips? C'mon man, think about what you're saying. You can't believe these things. Quit saying anything you can think of off the top of your head and think about your replies.

    My issue with the patch is not trivial and I think you know that. It is in fact a perfectly logical way to prove that these clubs are about playing outlaw.


    Side A

    "We have a club that is all about doing goods things. the fact that aesthetically we resemble an already established outlaw group is purely coincidental and has nothing to do with why we are members."

    Side B

    "Oh Ok then why don't you change your aesthetic?"

    Side A

    "that's, silly, trivial, how dare you criticize us, we do great things.

    Side B

    "Why cant you look different while you do great things?'

    Side A

    "How dare you criticize us, you need to research us and join us and …. (Insert distracting insult here. ***** perhaps?)"

    The obvious point, which is neither trivial or silly ( and dammed well you know it) is that these clubs exist because they copy criminal motor cycle gangs and there is no way you are going to change that. You are grown men playing dress up and you will say and do anything to avoid facing that fact.
    Last edited by Garbage Man; 10-15-2007, 11:32 PM.

    Leave a comment:

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