Leader

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Iron Pigs Motorcycle Club (IPMC)

Collapse

300x250 Mobile

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    I can see both sides of the arguement. I rode with the Blue Knights (here in So Cal they were more retired guys that went for pie and coffee) and the Choir Boys. I stopped riding with the BK's due to them not being in my age bracket, and I stopped riding with the CBs because I like my job. That's ALL I'll say about that.

    I really didn't wear patches. I did once, and a Vago screwed with me while I was on my way to a meeting. Good thing I was carrying. I ignored him, and he went away.

    My point is, if the OMGs know who the LE clubs are and choose to mess with them as they would any other OMG member, there are too many similarities to ignore. Now, I have no Harley, just my classic Stang to enjoy by myself or my family.

    PS - I think the name calling should stop.

    Comment


    • #47
      I think the lines are drawn here with no clear resolution in sight.

      Obviously BK is too close to the subject to see the forrest for the trees here.
      BK perhaps the issue is you dont work the field so you just dont understand the degree of crap we have to put up with from these OMG's. ( and despite telling yourselves your sticking it to those clubs, the actual effect has been the opposite, not gonna argue that, I know what its like to do a stop on these guys out here and you dont) Not a slam on corrections officers just stating afact. The jobs are both just as dangerous and just as important but they are different. Yes the OMG's are in prison, but not wearing the colors that we have come to hate, and not amassed in their usual 100 person formations out in the field where they have all the rights.

      As for your constant insults on me and silly implication that I am a troll, I hope you learn someday to get in a debate without making it such a personal issue. The only personal thing I said was that one of your agruments was infantile and silly which a year from now when you have calmed down you will realize that it was a childish thing to say, that in no way, repsonded to my point.

      By the way, I looked up the BKs in OC and their site said they are trying to build their chapter back up. Obviously I'd have no problems being accepted, in fact they would welcome me with open arms and you should be fully aware of that. Instead you chose that route rather than simply explain why your club cant just do its own unique logo.

      And yes I am done unless someone posts something new on this thread I think the horse just isnt getting deader. If you have something new to add I will respond, because to not do so, would be disrepectfull of you, but I will alow you to insult me without response. Go ahead take your shot.
      Last edited by Garbage Man; 10-14-2007, 02:58 PM.
      Originally posted by FJDave
      GM, you have just set the bar that much higher for the rest of us in our witty, sarcastic responses. I yield to you! Good job, kind Sir!

      District B13
      "We are not cops nor Feds." yet he still poses as an officer Hmmmm


      Grant us grace, fearlessly, to contend against evil and to make no peace with oppression.--WWII memorial

      "I have loved justice and hated iniquity, therefore I die in exile."

      Pope Gregory V II

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Blue Knights MC View Post
        It is true that OMG's first began the use of a three piece patch. LEMC's using them sets us apart from them and takes power away from them, not emulating them.
        It doesn't set you apart, it shows you're imitating them. Why else would the cop clubs choose that specific type of design? Further it doesn't take anything away from the clubs, if anything it gives them a boost to see cops trying to imitate them, and sends a message to the riding public that even some cops want to be like the OMGs. Again, it's fouled up to the extreme. The only cops who should be wearing 3 piece patches while trying to take something away from OMGs are the ones with the stones to go undercover and get patched in while doing it. The rest of us should ride our bikes safely, and set ourselves apart by NOT trying to look like the OMGs.
        It is about as stupid as saying that because outlaw groups only allow the their members to ride American made motorcycles that they are somehow patriotic or that LEMC groups should only ride Japanese bikes.
        1st, there's a huge difference between choosing a Harley or not, and choosing to wear 3 piece patches, and fashioning a club's structure and culture around that of the OMGs. The cop clubs chose their patch designs and structure knowing full well they were imitating the OMGs. Further, not all OMGs have the "American made only" rule, and those that do don't really enforce it. Hell, a lot of the members don't even have bikes. When it comes to the actual bikes themselves I'd like to think what really sets my buddies and I apart from the OMGs is most of them ride stolen bikes, or bikes with stolen parts, while my buddies and I (in and out of LE, Harley or Metric) all have legally owned bikes.
        As I said before, I can only speak for the Blue Knights, but there is no prospecting to join the BK's, women are not "property of" and to think so is ridiculous.
        Great glad to hear it, so if someone signs up, and pays up they are a full member with all rights and privileges the same day? Regardless, that is definitely NOT true for many of the other "cop clubs."
        We have actually not renewed memberships due to people not acting as professionals and engaging in dumb acts such as unsafe riding practices and hanging out in strip bars while wearing club colors.
        Also, glad to hear it, but the sad truth is many of the members of the cop clubs have some weird fascination with the OMG culture, and not in the professional way of wanting to understand and break them up. Far too often I've run into guys in "cop clubs" who not only try to emulate the culture, but are often kissing *** around the one percenters.
        I know plenty of "hardcore" biker types that are not members of any club, have a rough weathered exterior and look more intimidating than some of the actual Bandidos I have come in contact with. Many of these are some of the nicest people you will ever meet, are family type people and are active in local churches and community events.
        Me too, but while they are definitely hard riding bikers, and tough as nails, they don't go around trying to look and act like members of an OMG, and most of them feel the same way I do about the "cop clubs" and wouldn't be caught dead wearing the "colors" of any 3 piece patch club, LE or not.
        Last edited by SA13; 10-14-2007, 03:23 PM.

        Comment


        • #49
          It is true that OMG's first began the use of a three piece patch. LEMC's using them sets us apart from them and takes power away from them, not emulating them.
          If your son came home with his pants down around his knees, his underwear up around his armpits and a gold chain with an alarm clock on it and a hoe on each arm and told you he wasn't imitating the hip-hop thug culture but rather taking it away from all the MC's by his very imitation, would you laugh at him, smack him one upside the head, or be proud of him for his efforts to nullify the thug life?

          Comment


          • #50
            To hell with it. We are obviously not going to convince each other of anything. Not to mention that this was originally a thread about an entirely different group to begin with. I certainly never meant to insult anyone, but I will not sit back and let someone who doesn't know me or the people I ride with call them "apes" of criminal sub-culture.

            You say I lack a certain experience.
            I know what its like to do a stop on these guys out here and you dont
            If that makes you a certified gang investigator then so be it. (And yes I am.)

            I'm not going to continue to beat my head against the wall with people that are supposed to be on the same side.
            I guess I done here too.
            Road Captain
            Blue Knights TX XIX

            Comment


            • #51
              Blue Knighs MC, I'd like you to seriously consider this:

              If you guys in the "cop clubs" can't even convince other cops you're not trying to imitate OMGs, and in many cases suck up to OMGs, what kind of message do you think you're sending to people outside the LE community?

              I guarantee it's not the message you claim you want to send.

              Comment


              • #52
                It's hard to see all of the nuts from inside the jar. BK, I think you are too close to the issue to see the whole thing. Step back, open the tunnel vision, and open the mind. SA13 said it best.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Blue Knights MC View Post
                  I certainly never meant to insult anyone, but I will not sit back and let someone who doesn't know me or the people I ride with call them "apes" of criminal sub-culture.

                  .
                  Not apes, I said aping which means copying, it comes from monkeys in the zoo copying the gestures of visitors. I didnt mean that you are apes. Sorry if it sounded like thats what I meant. I am sure face to face we'd get along fine, it's hard to judge people by their emotionless typed words. I am far nicer in spoken language.

                  I really, really want to know, haven't you guys ever just thought about changing your logo? You would be surpised how much less unpopluar you would be with a lot of us. I seriously have no other issue with your club and like I said I might even consider joining.

                  You mentioned being a gang expert and kind of enquired whether I was. I am not an expert at all, I have attanded some training on the subject of OMG and a very close partner of mine is becoming extremely credentialed to the point of teaching those classes. Everyone of the experts I have talked to have exactly the same opinion of these cop clubs as SA13 and I. In fact the ones I know are much more passionate about it that I. Or as Trooper would say they are wound way too tight about it.
                  Originally posted by FJDave
                  GM, you have just set the bar that much higher for the rest of us in our witty, sarcastic responses. I yield to you! Good job, kind Sir!

                  District B13
                  "We are not cops nor Feds." yet he still poses as an officer Hmmmm


                  Grant us grace, fearlessly, to contend against evil and to make no peace with oppression.--WWII memorial

                  "I have loved justice and hated iniquity, therefore I die in exile."

                  Pope Gregory V II

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Garbage Man View Post

                    I really, really want to know, haven't you guys ever just thought about changing your logo? You would be surpised how much less unpopluar you would be with a lot of "us." I seriously have no other issue with your club and like I said I might even consider joining.
                    A couple of question, Garbage Man. WHat would you change the Blue Knights logo to? Although you have not earned the right to critique the logo; not being a dues paying member yourself, I'm betting the Blue Knights International welcomes input from cops and, has heard these arguements before. But, as is often the case with many who want to crtiticize things from the outside looking in, perhaps you don't know the story, thought and contemplation that has already gone into the logo. Might pay to find out.

                    When I started the Wyoming 1 chapter many moons ago, the logo was the most conforming and non-threatening aspect of the club. I soon backed out when they all wanted to pretend to be outlaws but it wasn't about the logo.

                    So, what would make an accdeptable logo in your mind? Just curious.
                    The All New
                    2013
                    BBQ and Goldfish Pond Club
                    Sully - IAM Rand - JasperST - L1 - The Tick - EmmaPeel - Columbus - LA Dep - SgtSlaughter - OneAdam12 - Retired96 - Iowa #1603
                    - M1Garand

                    (any BBQ and Goldfish Pond member may nominate another user for membership but just remember ..... this ain't no weenie roast!)



                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by 1042 Trooper View Post
                      A couple of question, Garbage Man. WHat would you change the Blue Knights logo to? Although you have not earned the right to critique the logo; not being a dues paying member yourself, I'm betting the Blue Knights International welcomes input from cops and, has heard these arguements before. But, as is often the case with many who want to crtiticize things from the outside looking in, perhaps you don't know the story, thought and contemplation that has already gone into the logo. Might pay to find out.

                      When I started the Wyoming 1 chapter many moons ago, the logo was the most conforming and non-threatening aspect of the club. I soon backed out when they all wanted to pretend to be outlaws but it wasn't about the logo.

                      So, what would make an accdeptable logo in your mind? Just curious.
                      Well I do have the right to critique anything I want to critique. (see constitution for further) If I see a movie that sucks do I not have the right to say so even though I wasnt involved in the making of the movie?

                      As for what logo, without needing to think much about it at all, it seems the obvious answer is just lose the rockers. the emblem itself is fine. Maybe put a small ribbon attached to the patch itself along the bottom to denote the chapter. Or put a single patch beside the emblem...would that be so hard?

                      Do you realize that containded in your last post was the most critical thing anyone has said on this thread about the Blue Knights?

                      I soon backed out when they all wanted to pretend to be outlaws

                      Why havent you volunteered that before?...sounds very damning of them to me. Might even be a great example of all that "thought and contemplation that went into the creation of the logo" you were just talking about. If that was your experience shouldnt you be on our side?

                      And, by the way that was only one question.
                      Last edited by Garbage Man; 10-15-2007, 02:39 PM.
                      Originally posted by FJDave
                      GM, you have just set the bar that much higher for the rest of us in our witty, sarcastic responses. I yield to you! Good job, kind Sir!

                      District B13
                      "We are not cops nor Feds." yet he still poses as an officer Hmmmm


                      Grant us grace, fearlessly, to contend against evil and to make no peace with oppression.--WWII memorial

                      "I have loved justice and hated iniquity, therefore I die in exile."

                      Pope Gregory V II

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Garbage Man View Post
                        Well I do have the right to critique anything I want to critique. (see constitution for further) If I see a movie that sucks do I not have the right to say so even though I wasnt involved in the making of the movie?
                        Huh? Where does it say Garbage Man has the "right" to critique anything he wants to in the constitution? Huh?

                        What I was getting at, was a situation similar to people who don't vote, complaining about politicians. Sure, we (they) can speak out all the want, but is it right? In my mind, for example, I give much more credit to critics of law enforcement when they wear a badge. If they haven't worked a shift, they really don't know what it's about. Like that.

                        As for what logo, without needing to think much about it at all, it seems the obvious answer is just lose the rockers.
                        The rockers? What the heck is wrong with rockers? What did rockers ever do to you? One says the club name and the other says where the chapter is from. What's in God's name is the problem with that?

                        the emblem itself is fine. Maybe put a small ribbon attached to the patch itself along the bottom to denote the chapter. Or put a single patch beside the emblem...would that be so hard?
                        Okay...let me get this straight. A rocker denoting the chapter is bad, but a smaller rocker or "ribbon" saying the same thing, is good. The only difference being one is easier to read from a distance. Or, off to one side, rather than below? Huh? All these posts over where the rocker goes and how big it is???

                        Do you realize that contained in your last post was the most critical thing anyone has said on this thread about the Blue Knights?
                        Wrong. This was critical of specific, individual members, not the club. The club is an outstanding, upright, sound organization founded on solid principles. These, were a bunch of cops who wanted to costume up and behave as outlaws. Big difference.

                        If that was your experience shouldnt you be on our side?
                        NO! I'm amazed at the silly nature of your part of this whole conversation. Of all the things we have to worry about as cops, one group sporting a patch (oh...and rockers that are too big or on the wrong part of the jacket, apparently) and promoting only good citizenship and cops hangin out together on scooters, isn't one of them.

                        I agree that cops wanting to play bad guy is not promoting a good image but what you fail to realize is that those who do this are the few - not the norm.

                        And, by the way that was only one question.
                        The other question, is, what other patches are bad? My HOG patch? My WHP shoulder patch proudly displayed on my colors? My American flag? My small Blue Knights International patch? My 99%er patch? My Richard Petty Fan Club patch? My KEMPO Karate patch? Which patches, exactly are bad and how big should they be? Which side of my jacket should they be on?

                        Now, do you see my point?
                        The All New
                        2013
                        BBQ and Goldfish Pond Club
                        Sully - IAM Rand - JasperST - L1 - The Tick - EmmaPeel - Columbus - LA Dep - SgtSlaughter - OneAdam12 - Retired96 - Iowa #1603
                        - M1Garand

                        (any BBQ and Goldfish Pond member may nominate another user for membership but just remember ..... this ain't no weenie roast!)



                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Trooper nobody on this thread is going to see your point.

                          you have trivialized valid issues and used confrontational responses to obscure the reality that I and many others have come to realize...some cops have fallen for the mistaken belief that bad guys are cool.

                          Obviously you have far too much of your ego attached to this issue or you would not have even posted your last response. I feel very strongly that others will see your last post as a shameless endorsement of something that is clearly wrong.

                          The issue is clear, don't flatter crooks by copying them. To suggest that my concern over copying the specific appearance of OMG patches by having a logo, surrounded by rockers, that indicates club and chapter, is the same thing as being opposed to all patches period, is just an argumentative response. You're no longer trying to be right you are trying to win an argument, and you have reached the point where you will say anything.

                          You once called me wound too tight. Read your last post and tell me if you don't at least sound very uptight and angry. You asked me a question and I showed you respect by answering it. Then you responded with a rant taking everything I said to a ridiculous extreme.

                          Yes, some symbols are wrong to display publicly. They have been associated with something negative and are therefore hurtful. Should there be a law banning them? No there should not be...can someone go about displaying them and consider themselves still a good person...no they can't.

                          How many chapters of the Blue Knights have you been associated with? How do you know there aren't more chapters that have the same problems as the one you started?

                          Isn't it possible that we might have a point? You don't have to agree with our point but you can still show us our due respect.

                          Should I even respond to the idea that I don't have the right to criticize practices of a club if I don't join it? Can you really think that? So I can't be against the Nazi party, the socialist party? I have to join a club that does something I disagree with before I can criticize it. I guess I will have to join the Hells Angels next too, think I would be allowed in the Crips? C'mon man, think about what you're saying. You can't believe these things. Quit saying anything you can think of off the top of your head and think about your replies.

                          My issue with the patch is not trivial and I think you know that. It is in fact a perfectly logical way to prove that these clubs are about playing outlaw.


                          Side A

                          "We have a club that is all about doing goods things. the fact that aesthetically we resemble an already established outlaw group is purely coincidental and has nothing to do with why we are members."

                          Side B

                          "Oh Ok then why don't you change your aesthetic?"

                          Side A

                          "that's, silly, trivial, how dare you criticize us, we do great things.

                          Side B

                          "Why cant you look different while you do great things?'

                          Side A

                          "How dare you criticize us, you need to research us and join us and …. (Insert distracting insult here. ***** perhaps?)"

                          The obvious point, which is neither trivial or silly ( and dammed well you know it) is that these clubs exist because they copy criminal motor cycle gangs and there is no way you are going to change that. You are grown men playing dress up and you will say and do anything to avoid facing that fact.
                          Last edited by Garbage Man; 10-15-2007, 11:32 PM.
                          Originally posted by FJDave
                          GM, you have just set the bar that much higher for the rest of us in our witty, sarcastic responses. I yield to you! Good job, kind Sir!

                          District B13
                          "We are not cops nor Feds." yet he still poses as an officer Hmmmm


                          Grant us grace, fearlessly, to contend against evil and to make no peace with oppression.--WWII memorial

                          "I have loved justice and hated iniquity, therefore I die in exile."

                          Pope Gregory V II

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Blue Knights MC
                            No, Garbage Man you are wrong.
                            [/I]
                            I just wonder, are you often called a *****? Because you are certainly acting like you have probably heard the word once or twice.
                            Quite harsh. A bit too harsh for cops to be doing to other cops. Not cool.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              So now I've got to be a member of something to criticize them?

                              I guess I can't criticize the actions of members of the Surenos, Hells Angels, 211, Crips, Mongols, Aryan Brotherhood, GKI, KKK, Bloods, etc, etc, because I haven't been a member of those groups either.

                              Regardless, I'll say it again I've seen up and close and personal how many members of the the "cop clubs" act. I've seen how many of them are trying to imitate the style and culture of the OMGs, and I've seen many of them sucking up to the OMGs. Even 1042 Trooper alluded to the problem of what kind of people are attracted to those clubs, as did IMachU when talking about his experience with the Choir Boys.

                              Also, the charity runs don't negate the negative issues that go along with those clubs. I'll also point out that Sonny Barger got the HAMC doing charity runs to improve their image with the ignorant masses, long before the cop clubs were around.

                              So we're back to my statement at the top of this page:

                              I'd like you guys who are defending the "cop clubs" to seriously consider this:

                              If you guys in the "cop clubs" can't even convince other cops you're not trying to imitate OMGs, and in many cases suck up to OMGs, what kind of message do you think you're sending to people outside the LE community?

                              I guarantee it's not the message you claim you want to send.
                              Last edited by SA13; 10-16-2007, 03:35 AM.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Outshined
                                A few things OMG do as regular course of business:

                                Sell drugs, carry illegal firearms, fight with other "gangs", break the law.

                                Blue Knights: none of the above.

                                I poster on this subject says BK is trying to imitate OMG. In reality it is just the opposite. BK's were founded in part as a alternative to OMG. Showing the public that there is a possibility to belong to a like minded group and still obey the law and have respect for your fellow human being.
                                So the message to the public is you can look like an OMG and not be a bad guy? Did you ever think that maybe thats the opposite message from what we want to the public to hear when we are asking for funding to target the OMG's?

                                As for the public they seem to not have our problem in knowing the difference. they have numerous riding clubs that dont copy the OMG's at all. Some are informal some arent, none of them coopy the OMG logo or appearance at all. I think we should be learning from them.
                                Originally posted by FJDave
                                GM, you have just set the bar that much higher for the rest of us in our witty, sarcastic responses. I yield to you! Good job, kind Sir!

                                District B13
                                "We are not cops nor Feds." yet he still poses as an officer Hmmmm


                                Grant us grace, fearlessly, to contend against evil and to make no peace with oppression.--WWII memorial

                                "I have loved justice and hated iniquity, therefore I die in exile."

                                Pope Gregory V II

                                Comment

                                MR300x250 Tablet

                                Collapse

                                What's Going On

                                Collapse

                                There are currently 5753 users online. 340 members and 5413 guests.

                                Most users ever online was 26,947 at 08:36 PM on 12-29-2019.

                                Welcome Ad

                                Collapse
                                Working...
                                X