Interpreting HR 218

[Creeker]

How do the new firearm bans involving some states and cities, (ie, Columbus, Ohio) affect retired or off-duty Officers pertaining to High Cap. magazines in their semi-autos? I understand that the Columbus Ban is highly restrictive in regards to autoloaders. All responses will be interesting and practical knowledge valuable.

[mattph4716]

This is a good question. If you are approved to carry (have met criteria in your state) you are still subject to local laws. If you are local law enforcement officer and travel out of state you have the right to carry but other than that you are an average person in that state. You have no police powers and are not considered police. That being said, if there is a state law regarding high cap magazines and that is what you have, you could get arrested for it. There are so many gray areas with this though. A good example is this. I live in MD and am issued hollow point ammo for my service weapon. We are given permission by our chief to carry our service weapons out of state. New Jersey has a state law that only police can carry hollow point ammo. So, if I go to NJ and have my departmental weapon and ammo I am breaking NJ law regarding ammo. If I change ammo in my service weapon and go to NJ I am breaking departmental policy in regards to non issued ammo. Catch 22. In a situation like that though I would hope for professional courtesy on behalf of the local PD but it can't be expected. We all know there are cops out there who would lock up a fellow brother or sister.

[Metro174]

Matt, I had the same question regarding New Jersey since we visit the wife's family there quite a bit. Heard NJ cops weren't big on courtesy either so I've opted not to carry there.

[AtlCop]

New Jersey has a state law that only police can carry hollow point ammo. So, if I go to NJ and have my departmental weapon and ammo I am breaking NJ law regarding ammo.

I am not a NJ cop but have seen this thread before. The retired guys are the ones that have to worry about this.

You are exactly right about NJ law. It says only police will have hollowpoints. If you are a police officer in your state, you are still a police officer when you enter NJ. You are just out of your jurisdiction. It is my understanding that the NJ law does not specify NJ officers only. It just specifies that it has to be an officer.

There is also another line of thinking:

The law allows state and federal government to restrict possession on government property.

There are those that feel this is the only restrictions a state can impose on concealed carry. They say that this act overrules bullet laws or magazine capacity laws if you are covered by this act.

[Metro174]

The way I understand it though is that New Jersey police aren't allowed to carry hollow points off duty either. Maybe someone from NJ can clear it up for us.

[AtlCop]

f.Dum-dum or body armor penetrating bullets. (1) Any person, other than a law enforcement officer or persons engaged in activities pursuant to subsection f. of N.J.S.2C:39-6, who knowingly has in his possession any hollow nose or dum-dum bullet, or (2) any person, other than a collector of firearms or ammunition as curios or relics as defined in Title 18, United States Code, section 921 (a) (13) and has in his possession a valid Collector of Curios and Relics License issued by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, who knowingly has in his possession any body armor breaching or penetrating ammunition, which means: (a) ammunition primarily designed for use in a handgun, and (b) which is comprised of a bullet whose core or jacket, if the jacket is thicker than.025 of an inch, is made of tungsten carbide, or hard bronze, or other material which is harder than a rating of 72 or greater on the Rockwell B. Hardness Scale, and (c) is therefore capable of breaching or penetrating body armor, is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree. For purposes of this section, a collector may possess not more than three examples of each distinctive variation of the ammunition described above. A distinctive variation includes a different head stamp, composition, design, or color.


This is the applicable NJ code that I found. It says any person "other than a law enforcement officer"... I would think that means any police officers are good to go. Of course, I'm not going to be the one to go to New Jersey and test it out.

[Metro174]

Of course, I'm not going to be the one to go to New Jersey and test it out.

Me either!

[mattph4716]

Our legal division just put something out that states that you are only covered for carrying a weapon. You still have to obey the particular state laws on ammo.

Also, the bill only applies to police officers who work for a government agency. If you are an officer for a private agency (example: csx railroad) you are not covered by the bill.

[mdcop4life]

How many times do you think NJ officers who stop other officers from out of jurisdiction who are carrying ask them to pull out their weapon to see their ammo?

In the same retrospect......how many officers ask to even see someone's service weapon to begin with? Unless of course they have violated more then just a minor moving infraction.

Boils down to common sense

[Creeker]

Well, "common sense" aint very common anymore... see Columbus, Ohio weapons ban.

Can anyone tell me how the Columbus Ban would affect retired's or even off-duty's in particular re: Hi Cap mags or semi-autos?

[SMPPD87]

How many times do you think NJ officers who stop other officers from out of jurisdiction who are carrying ask them to pull out their weapon to see their ammo?

In the same retrospect......how many officers ask to even see someone's service weapon to begin with? Unless of course they have violated more then just a minor moving infraction.

Boils down to common sense

agreed, i can't image anyone giving another cop a hard time over carrying no matter what state they're from. unless of course they were doing something outside the scope of professional courtesy and you already plan on locking them up.

[John from Maryland]

In my experience, most New Jersey cops are not looking to jam up fellow officers on goofy firearms and ammunition laws. That said, the local prosecutor is a politician. If you happen to light up someone of the wrong race, age, gender, ethnicity, or national origin, use of technically illegal ammunition may come back to haunt you.

I purchased a box of Expanding Full Metal Jacket ammunition when I was in New Jersey at a training class. Better to be in a little trouble at home than a whole lot of trouble in Jersey.

[PHXCOP]

This is a good question. If you are approved to carry (have met criteria in your state) you are still subject to local laws. If you are local law enforcement officer and travel out of state you have the right to carry but other than that you are an average person in that state. You have no police powers and are not considered police. That being said, if there is a state law regarding high cap magazines and that is what you have, you could get arrested for it. There are so many gray areas with this though. A good example is this. I live in MD and am issued hollow point ammo for my service weapon. We are given permission by our chief to carry our service weapons out of state. New Jersey has a state law that only police can carry hollow point ammo. So, if I go to NJ and have my departmental weapon and ammo I am breaking NJ law regarding ammo. If I change ammo in my service weapon and go to NJ I am breaking departmental policy in regards to non issued ammo. Catch 22. In a situation like that though I would hope for professional courtesy on behalf of the local PD but it can't be expected. We all know there are cops out there who would lock up a fellow brother or sister.

Good point for info.

But Jesus Christ, what cop will ding you for that?!?!?!?!?!?!?

[actiontrooper]

It might not be the police but the prosecutor's office you'd come in conflict with. I have a general question about HR218 and CCW. HR218 doesn't seem worth the paper it's printed on right now, maybe in years to come it will have some teeth, be clear and there will actually be uniform standards. Here's my question. What states CCW licenses cover the most states? I know, for example one can obtain a florida non resident permit that covers a number of states. Does anyone know of a combination of two or three state resident or non resident permits that would cover most or all the states so one wouldn't have to worry about some politician interpreting ambiguous legislation while unintentionally running afoul of some state's laws in the process.

[Creeker]

It might not be the police but the prosecutor's office you'd come in conflict with. I have a general question about HR218 and CCW. HR218 doesn't seem worth the paper it's printed on right now, maybe in years to come it will have some teeth, be clear and there will actually be uniform standards. Here's my question. What states CCW licenses cover the most states? I know, for example one can obtain a florida non resident permit that covers a number of states. Does anyone know of a combination of two or three state resident or non resident permits that would cover most or all the states so one wouldn't have to worry about some politician interpreting ambiguous legislation while unintentionally running afoul of some state's laws in the process.

I've got a New Hampshire Permit by sending them a $20 and a photocopy of my ID and filling out the form (from their website).

As for the combinations you are asking for, you can find that by mixing and matching at http://www.packing.org/ ...a good clearing house.