Bad county prosecutors

[PHXCOP]

I have had some rediculous things turned down lately by my county atty. Im talking about cut and dry cases. Like agg assault on a po. Any horor stories along those lines?????

[justice12]

Just a thought....

[Delta784]

With apologies to any prosecutors here, most ADA's are mediocre to poor graduates from bottom-tier law schools. Once in awhile I'll come across a sharp lawyer who joined the DA's Office out of a sense of civic duty, but most hot-shot law school graduates go into private practice. Given the dismal starting salary for ADA's, I certainly don't blame them.

[Runnin' 87]

Assault on PO? BWHAHAHAHAHAHA Fightin' the law is "expected". It is a romantic vision of many. Like going out in a blaze of glory. You should expect that too. Bumps, bruises, and busted knuckles is just part of you job. Just don't win too good or they will files a civil rights violation on you.

Had that cotton picking screaming argument too many times with prosecuters.

"Tell you what. I'll lock you and the crook in the courtroom and ya'll have a winner take all fight on the punishment."

"Uh-uh that's improper, obsurd, the pubilc expects some resistance to the police."

"Screw you you ignernt SOB, the day you can walk in one of those officers shoes I might speak to your sorry *** again."

Then i end up having to go over there and appologize after a couple of days.

[Centurion44]

Assault on PO? BWHAHAHAHAHAHA Fightin' the law is "expected". It is a romantic vision of many. Like going out in a blaze of glory.

That's ridiculous. Most suspects that "fight" are doing so out of a desire to escape. To avoid prosecution. That is a crime. Yes, it's part our job to apprehend those that violate the law as safely as possible, but it doesn't mean the perp has to get away with it.

When a perp runs from you or lies to you? Yeah, that's expected. But when they start swinging on an officer? That needs to be charged.

[Stan Switek]

I find some prosecutors are good, some are lazy. It amazes me the excuses the lazy ones can manufacture not to file a case. I just take the case to another prosecutor & get it filed.

[justice12]

[I am a lawyer in private practice, and I have seen many talented lawyers jump from law firms into a prosecutor position. Usually, they've either gotten sick of the rat race in their firm or are just looking for a secure position with benefits and pension. Not all lawyers in private practice make more than prosecutors, and medical and pension is usually better than anything you can get at a firm.

[narc]

easy they are lazy...case load...whatever....cops have case loads too.....we give the DPA's good rock solid cases through hard work and solid investigation and the LAZY ones plead things like delivery w/guns......to straight dope possession......LAZY (true F..ing case.....) .

hey...maybe I should shortcut my next couple of cases......

[Runnin' 87]

I'll tell you something else that really pizzes me off. Pleaing a defendant to one case and dismissing five others. That is stupid. It screws the public in some many ways it ain't even funny. Most of all, when somebody else is hurt by the turd, he only has one prior conviction to go into punishment with, rather than six.

[justice12]

easy they are lazy...case load...whatever....cops have case loads too.....we give the DPA's good rock solid cases through hard work and solid investigation and the LAZY ones plead things like delivery w/guns......to straight dope possession......LAZY (true F..ing case.....) .

hey...maybe I should shortcut my next couple of cases......

I agree that some are certainly lazy as hell. My point about case load was not to say that they are overworked. I meant that they have a limited amount of court time. Would you want to come back 5 years later and testify about a case? Would you want to hunt for civilian witnesses 5 years later? Because that's what would happen if a prosecutor took every case to the mat. Unfortunately, the criminal justice system is all about moving cases. Defense lawyers know it so they work the system for plea bargains. People always want more cops and more prisons to deal with crime, and don't realize there's a huge bottleneck in there, which is the lack of sufficient criminal courtrooms and judges.

[Delta784]

I disagree with your generalization. Being a "hot shot law school graduate" means nothing when it comes to the skills necessary to be a trial lawyer, which is what most prosecutors are. Grades/quality of law school will get you are high paying job at a firm that wants to paper the wall with law review articles and Harvard diplomas, but it won't give you what you need to try a case effectively. Some of the best trial lawyers I know went to low-ranked law schools and will proudly tell you they barely passed law school or the bar. It's all about experience and natural ability.

In my almost 18 years in law enforcement, I've come across exactly one ADA that graduated from a top-tier law school (Harvard), and it turned out she was on temporary loan from a white-shoe law firm in Boston that probably wanted her to get some trial experience.

I've met Harvard Law graduates that I wouldn't trust with sharp scissors, and graduates from the New England School of Law that are exceptional trial lawyers, but they are very much the exception on both sides.

In my opinion, the problem is not getting talented lawyers to join the prosecutor's offices, the problem is keeping them after they've learned the ropes. You're right, the low salary means most new prosecutors come right out of law school. Many people apply because the opportunity for trial experience is unparallelled. Additionally, prosecution is a common way for aspiring politicians to get their name in the paper. (The aforementioned "ticket punchers"). The problem is, by the time they've become competent, they are ready to move on. The ones that stick around are often "slugs" who are counting the days until retirement.

Leave it to a lawyer to repeat what I said, using 4X as many words, and then try to make it sound like something new.



Just kidding.

Seriously, that's basically what I said. The pay for ADA's sucks, especially around here, so the only really talented lawyers that become ADA's are the "true believers" that want to put the bad guys away. That grows old really quickly, especially when the student loans come due.

As for trial experience, probably 90% of cases at the local district court are pled-out prior to trial, so I don't know how much experience they're really getting. The ADA's in superior court have a totally different pay structure.

[justice12]

Leave it to a lawyer to repeat what I said, using 4X as many words, and then try to make it sound like something new.



Just kidding.

Sorry. It's a habit. If somebody would just hurry up and give me a police job I promise I will never talk like a lawyer again.

I thought you were saying nobody wants the job so it goes to the least qualified grads. I was just saying the problem is not recruiting, it's retention.

[Runnin' 87]

Me, in 15 years have been blessed with some decent ADAs. Now one is a judge, the other went to the federal side, one went to another county.


There were two ADAs doing misdemeanors that were up for one of the felony spots. I went to bat for the best one. She didn' t get it. Not that she was "good enough", she was just getting better faster than the other dufus. Needless to say, dufus got it.

I wouldn't **** on the dufus if he was on fire.

[narc]

I agree that some are certainly lazy as hell. My point about case load was not to say that they are overworked. I meant that they have a limited amount of court time. Would you want to come back 5 years later and testify about a case? Would you want to hunt for civilian witnesses 5 years later? Because that's what would happen if a prosecutor took every case to the mat. Unfortunately, the criminal justice system is all about moving cases. Defense lawyers know it so they work the system for plea bargains. People always want more cops and more prisons to deal with crime, and don't realize there's a huge bottleneck in there, which is the lack of sufficient criminal courtrooms and judges.

the problem with that thinking...is that ....THEY don't even bother reading or looking at cases...the mindset is plea agreement. You are abosolulty right about defense attorney's working the the system...case they KNOW how LAZY some DPA's are and they use it.....

so when a good case comes along the DPA does even think about taking it to trial or NEGOTIATING A better deal for the community...instead they want to move it off their table.....and they drop all the enhancment instead of FORCING the defense attorney to work.

[Delta784]

Sorry. It's a habit. If somebody would just hurry up and give me a police job I promise I will never talk like a lawyer again.

Funny you should say that, our last two recruit classes before this latest one had lawyers among the new officers. The DA's Office and public defense can't compete with our salary, which is pretty sad, considering all you need to be a cop in MA is a GED and a driver's license.