Another Union discussion for the sake of discussion

[Runnin' 87]

I ain

[Delta784]

If you give up unions, you also surrender collective bargaining, which eliminates any sort of leverage you have against the administration. I've heard many horror stories from PD's and SO's down south in "right to work" states with no unions, so the system here may not be perfect, but I'll stick with it for now.

[SinePari]

Yeah, and good luck with that first civil suit against you without a lawyer. Our union keeps several very good ones on a retainer for big bucks that I can't afford.

I think it's worth the fifty bucks a month. Plus we get a dental/vision plan for nothing.

[NPD21]

I will pay my union dues and smile Better wages, benefits and more leverage with the city than any of the guys who work for RIGHT 2 WORK states; my union isnt perfect, but it's better than nothing

[1sgkelly]

Kind of like democracy; the worst possible form of government out there; except everything else.

I'll keep my FOP card, thank you very much.

[BrickCop]

Well said everybody.

To the anti- union crowd. Can you can unequivocally trust your PD Administration to always do what is in your best interest? You know with small stuff like a decent salary, seniority rights, cost of living adjustments, health care plan, accrual of sick/vacation time, uniform allowance, educational incentives, legal representation, fair and equitable assignment of overtime, etc.

If the answer is "no" or "I'm not sure" to any of the above then you need a union.

Now if you trust your administration 100% with the aforementioned issues then good for you. Unfortunately most of us don't work for Fantasy Island PD.

Sure the Union may protect a lazy, slacker cop now and then but what is the alternative for all the decent hard working cops who get jammed up- should they give up their protection from political vendettas and community activist witch hunts? Should they trust their city/town/state not to cry poor mouth when they have not had a raise in 5 years?

For me it's not a difficult choice between :

A. Hoping the adminstration always does the right thing for their
workers.

or

B. Ensuring there is a process, however flawed, to hold them accountable to
their workers.

For the life of me I will never understand the anti- union sentiment in LE.

[connor]

Before any of you in union states answer, think about my points coming from an LEO in a right to work state.

1. We are eligible to retire at a PARTIAL pension under the rule of 80. To get the max its more or less rule of 80 plus five years. That translates to 28 to 33 years for me to retire. Its also why my department has patrol officers in their late fifties and even a few in their sixties. And I don't know a single officer who retired who didn't have to go get another job to live in the same lifestyle they had been.

2. When we retire we can pay for health insurance at a rates that currently average $800.00 a month out of our pension if you want your spouse covered. And you can only pick up this insurance for ten years so if your not eligible for medicare at the end of that ten years tough luck for you. Even tougher luck for your spouse if he / she is younger than you.

3. Paywise I make a little over $21.00 an hour after nine years of service. I'm close to being topped out (I'll get a raise at ten years, another at 15, and then my FINAL raise at 20 and never get another no matter how long I work - excepting occasional across the board cost of living increases). And my payscale is excellent compared to many in my state who make under $10.00 an hour. Advantage of working for one of the largest departments in the state. I know a lot of guys in my area making under $30,000 a year even though they are supervisors on their departments.

4. We aren't quite at will employees but were close. But if you get disciplined or worse fired there isn't much recourse for you other than to pay through the nose to a lawyer. Now many of us are FOP for legal defense but we have ZERO collective bargaining rights.

Now a few departments in my state are unionized but only through sheer determination and a lot of luck. Problem with a right to work state is that you can unionize if you want but the employer can just ignore you.

[connor]

Another thing I thought of - sick leave. We accumulate an unlimited amount at 8 hours a month. Okay, thats fine, I'm not complaining there. But when we retire its meaningless how much we have. Save up 3000 hours over the course of your career (as one guy recently did) and you get the same as the guy who called in sick on the last day of work to burn his last 8 hours.

[SinePari]

In my short time on the job, I've seen my commander making changes to the schedule for various reasons. When he gets it all done, he'll look at it and go, "****, I can't do that", or "nope, that's not gonna work".

All because our contract specifically states what kind of days on/off we are mandated, based on line/shift/seniority/holidays earned/bid cycle etc. The collective bargaining agreement keeps the management in check. If not, he would have the luxury of plugging holes with people however he wanted.

[Bart]

Have we as law enforcement officers road the union train to long, or maybe is there a time in the not too distant future we need to abandon the union idea? I say this because I have seen some many instances of the union standing in support of substandard or mediocre police work.

in cases like youre talking about, you have to think of the union like a defense attorney. defense attorney's may do alot of scumbag things but id bet my *** that if you somehow found yourself up on charges, you aint gonna stand in front of the jury without one.

[fiftyfour23]

Depends on the administration you work for, which can change at anytime. Our city administrator tried wiping out our retirement health insurance benifit and cutting us in half on our regular health insurance, not to mention no raise. While the union does have it's down side, without it, I'd be working just to pay health insurance.