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Should it be lawful to not allow law enforcement officers to not form a union??

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  • Should it be lawful to not allow law enforcement officers to not form a union??

    I am not sure if many of you are aware that in the state of North Carolina it is a written General Statute that Civil Servants such as Police officers and Firefighters are not allowed to unionize and can be charged criminally if they were to go on "strike" I have met and talked with many others fellow LEO's from other states that tell me anytime there is any questionable problem, they just contact their union rep. When i tell them that we dont have a union they seem shocked....all we have is the PBA, and the FOP, and as you should all know the FOP is comprised of all the Police Chiefs in the state, which means...most chiefs will side with their fellow police chiefs in an incident of an officers actions. I just wanted to get your opinions. And Be safe out there.
    Those that do evil to innocent people,The Robbers, Murderers, Rapists, Pimps, Prostitutes, The Simps, Sadists, Sinners, You will come to know me well, I am The Punisher.

  • #2
    To be without Union protection would make my life awful. I couln't imagine being fired for the stupidest of reasons, and not have a union to back you up and assist with arguing your case to the chief. The union is helpful even with the minor complaints that come in.

    I suppose that it could be worse... I hear that some states have "at will" employment. An officer could be let go with no reason!

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    • #3
      In Texas we may form "associations". We call them "unions" - generically. We can not strike, and as far as my association we would not even if we could. There is a process an asociation goes through to get collective barganing rights with their city or county.
      "In my life I have met many people who were quick to point a finger, and but a few that cared enough lift one"

      ME

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      • #4
        In Mass. we cannot strike either. Generally, we have Associations, which are almost unions. I am told the difference between and Association and a Union is a Union can strike.

        In Mass. we also have Civil Service which covers a lot of cities and towns. It is another layer of protection. Most Departments will not try anything unless they have a locked down case, which they usually don't.

        I have heard of some smaller towns in Mas. who are not represented by anyone, though there only a handful.
        Last edited by mikemac64; 07-09-2005, 01:21 PM.
        Semper Fi

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Lawdogg
          I am not sure if many of you are aware that in the state of North Carolina it is a written General Statute that Civil Servants such as Police officers and Firefighters are not allowed to unionize and can be charged criminally if they were to go on "strike" I have met and talked with many others fellow LEO's from other states that tell me anytime there is any questionable problem, they just contact their union rep. When i tell them that we dont have a union they seem shocked....all we have is the PBA, and the FOP, and as you should all know the FOP is comprised of all the Police Chiefs in the state, which means...most chiefs will side with their fellow police chiefs in an incident of an officers actions. I just wanted to get your opinions. And Be safe out there.
          My department recently formed a union, so I got to do a little research on this. Although you are correct that law enforcement officers cannot strik. Here is some excerpts from Federal law that states that you are allowed to join an orgainization such as FOP.

          Summary Of LEO First Amendment Rights


          --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

          Police Officers have a right to join and participate in a Police Association. The Courts have been clear that public employees are

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          • #6
            Union Rep???

            I am in the same boat, Virginia is a right to work state, meaning kiss unions good bye. I personally think it's a crock of SH--! COPS risk the @ss everyday and we need the best possible tool to protect our interests and actions when they are questioned!

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            • #7
              BIA cops are the only tribal cops who have union protection. The rest of us are basically screwed if we hook up the wrong person..but the money is good.
              I don't answer recruitment messages....

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              • #8
                No it should not be unlawful for police officers to unionize. It's commonplace to have laws/statutes prohibiting the police to strike but if the "law" in your state prohibits the mere forming of a union, then I say the law sir, is an ***.
                Last edited by BrickCop; 07-10-2005, 08:54 PM.
                Disclaimer: The writer does not represent any organization, employer, entity or other individual. The first amendment protected views/commentary/opinions/satire expressed are those only of the writer. In the case of a sarcastic, facetious, nonsensical, stirring-the-pot, controversial or devil's advocate-type post, the views expressed may not even reflect those of the writer.

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                • #9
                  The RCMP is not allowed to unionize and our Supreme Court has upheld that position because we are allowed to form an association. Assocations, of course, don't have the power to collectively bargain on behalf of the membership so they're toothless tigers at best. Canada is huge and the RCMP is everywhere in the country and, to date, no single association has managed to gain sufficient membership to make any kind of difference. Management more or less ignores their existance.

                  We have a supposedly independent group called the Staff Relations Representatives who are elected from within our ranks but funded by the RCMP. They're supposed to act on behalf of members but, again, they have no power but unlike the Associations, management doesn't ignore the SRRs... they listen and then do whatever they want regardless. The only way the SRRs have managed to effect change is by going outside of the RCMP, bringing issues before the courts. Even then, change comes slowly and grudgingly.

                  -Mac

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by JTA1186
                    I am in the same boat, Virginia is a right to work state, meaning kiss unions good bye. I personally think it's a crock of SH--! COPS risk the @ss everyday and we need the best possible tool to protect our interests and actions when they are questioned!

                    We can form associations and/or join unions but can't take adverse job actions (ie strike). Quite frankly I agree with that. People in public safety shouldn't be allowed to strike. If I'm not mistaken, everyone in PS work applied for the job voluntarily. Ford, GM, the NHL, etc. are able to unionize and strike if they choose to. See what that gets them?
                    sigpic
                    Our houses are protected by the good Lord and a gun.
                    And you might meet 'em both if you show up here not welcome son.

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                    • #11
                      When I was active duty there were no unions in SC. The thought of one was also very distasteful to almost everyone. We had one Officer that wanted a union and even went so far as to contact one to try and get it started at my department. He was not an Officer for very long and very few were sorry he was gone. He was also the type that would have needed one to keep his job as he was pretty useless.

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                      • #12
                        North Dakota is a right to work state too. No Unions (it sucks)

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Cruiser
                          When I was active duty there were no unions in SC. The thought of one was also very distasteful to almost everyone. We had one Officer that wanted a union and even went so far as to contact one to try and get it started at my department. He was not an Officer for very long and very few were sorry he was gone. He was also the type that would have needed one to keep his job as he was pretty useless.
                          I don't get it Cruiser. Why would most everyone consider something that protects your labor rights/interests as distasteful? Does "management" treat you guys that well down there?

                          Sure Unions sometimes take care of useless officers but what about the vast majority of hard working cops? What safeguards do they have as far as job security and making a good salary?
                          Disclaimer: The writer does not represent any organization, employer, entity or other individual. The first amendment protected views/commentary/opinions/satire expressed are those only of the writer. In the case of a sarcastic, facetious, nonsensical, stirring-the-pot, controversial or devil's advocate-type post, the views expressed may not even reflect those of the writer.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Brick, aside from the fact that were were in a Right to Work State I did not like the idea of a Union that has ties, even remotely, with organized crime representing me in any fashion. I also do not like to pay someone to speak for me when I am perfectly able to state my own case, or not. Nobody is going to tell me that I have to strike because some paperbag-maker wants a raise and we should sympathize with them. Or that I need to strike so that they can get me a $.50 and hr raise and it end up costing me more in lost salary than I gain PLUS give them money for that priviledge. No they did not treat us 'that' well, but they did pay us as much as they could without cutting the number of Officers or tools we needed to do our job. The guys back home still do not have a union and are pretty well paid now with great benefits etc. and we never have had to put up with an Officer that could not be depended upon.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Cruiser
                              Brick, aside from the fact that were were in a Right to Work State I did not like the idea of a Union that has ties, even remotely, with organized crime representing me in any fashion. I also do not like to pay someone to speak for me when I am perfectly able to state my own case, or not. Nobody is going to tell me that I have to strike because some paperbag-maker wants a raise and we should sympathize with them. Or that I need to strike so that they can get me a $.50 and hr raise and it end up costing me more in lost salary than I gain PLUS give them money for that priviledge. No they did not treat us 'that' well, but they did pay us as much as they could without cutting the number of Officers or tools we needed to do our job. The guys back home still do not have a union and are pretty well paid now with great benefits etc. and we never have had to put up with an Officer that could not be depended upon.

                              I understand what you are saying Cruiser but a lot of your arguments are based on negative generalizations and inaccurate cliches about unions. As far as the strike issue it really is a non issue since the police cannot "strike" up my way. Are some unions remotely affiliated with a shady characters somewhere? Sure I guess so but that could be said about a lot of jobs and organizations. I think that's an old 'Jimmy Hoffa' stereotype that simply is not accurate.

                              Also the Union does not "tell" us anything. We elect our Union President and reps to work for us. They'd be voted out in a heartbeat if they went against their own guys.

                              I think it is great that you can speak for yourself the question is, does management listen to what you have to say? I'm not saying unions are perfect in this regard but there is an overall proven track record from my experience.

                              I don't know how much you know about Unions but up my way "50 cents an hour" just isn't the case. A Burger King worker could get that type of raise. My Union dues are $15 a week. For that fifteen bucks I get among other things: 100% FREE legal representation from one of the top Law Firms in my state, Dental, 85% Health care cost, $800 annual uniform cleaning allowance, shift bid by seniority, ALL equipment, leathgear, uniforms (issued and replaced as needed), 13 paid holidays, double OT rate for Sundays, free $50,000 Life Insurance policy (per Collective Bargaining contract).

                              My first contract after I got on the job resulted in a $200+ a week salary increase. Granted, subsequent ones over the years have been more modest but you understand my point.

                              Don't misunderstand me Cruiser I'm glad a brother officer like yourself is treated well. I just believe there are 500+ hard working officers who benefit from the union for every one lazy cop who is protected by default. Sadly it seems as if some of the anti union folks think it's the other way around. I mean you gotta admit I'm sure there are a few paper weights on your job somewhere, right?
                              Disclaimer: The writer does not represent any organization, employer, entity or other individual. The first amendment protected views/commentary/opinions/satire expressed are those only of the writer. In the case of a sarcastic, facetious, nonsensical, stirring-the-pot, controversial or devil's advocate-type post, the views expressed may not even reflect those of the writer.

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