Ad JS

Collapse

Leaderboard

Collapse

Leaderboard Tablet

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Molotov cocktails - shoot/no shoot?

Collapse

300x250 Mobile

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Molotov cocktails - shoot/no shoot?

    I think we can all agree that a lit Molotov cocktail being thrown at a person/people meets the definition of deadly force.

    So... If you're an officer at one of these "protests", do you shoot an attacker who is winding up to throw one? Why or why not? (I know it's unlikely, but let's say for the sake of argument that you have a nice clean shot with low risk of hitting anyone else.)

    Are there any examples and/or court cases in the U.S. on this?
    "Well I'd lock him up for what we know he did, and then throw in a few extra years for what he probably did." ~Hank Hill

    "Why do you need to carry a gun? There aren't any bad people in this town..."

  • #2
    What do YOU think? Follow the UoF policy of your agency.
    Now go home and get your shine box!

    Comment


    • #3
      I recall our Mobile Field Force training at LAPD, IIRC, the ends of any skirmish line should be long rifles. IMO, anyone reeling back to toss a Molotov Cocktail at the police is not doing so to "stimulate dialogue", or "raise awareness". They intend to do great bodily harm and should be stopped from doing so.

      These days, police and protest organizers meet to hash out protest zones and (so-called) rules of engagement. I believe the police should be warning protest organizers that long rifles will be deployed on overwatch with zero-tolerance for Molotov tossers.
      "You're never fully dressed without a smile."

      Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

      Three things I know for sure: (1) No bad deed goes unrewarded, (2) No good deed goes unpunished, and (3) It is entirely possible to push the most devoted, loyal and caring person beyond the point where they no longer give a 5h!t.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by CCCSD View Post
        What do YOU think? Follow the UoF policy of your agency.
        I don't usually state my own opinion when I ask a question. I want people to post their own opinions, not just agree or disagree with mine.

        I know what my agency's use of force policy is. I also know that simple adherence to such a policy doesn't stop a prosecutor from filing charges.
        "Well I'd lock him up for what we know he did, and then throw in a few extra years for what he probably did." ~Hank Hill

        "Why do you need to carry a gun? There aren't any bad people in this town..."

        Comment


        • #5
          And the ONLY thing you should be following is YOUR policy. It does not mean a thing what others think.
          Now go home and get your shine box!

          Comment


          • #6
            Ten-32, I would guess your use of force policy does not address Molotov cocktails. Mine doesn't either and I wrote the thing.

            I can articulate that a Molotov cocktail is a weapon capable of inflicting death or serious injury, but a prosecutor could easily gin up a use of force instructor to claim they're not that dangerous.
            John from Maryland

            Comment


            • #7
              I don't think any use of force policy is going to dictate every single scenario. It's a guideline.
              I make my living on Irish welfare.

              Comment


              • #8
                Agreed that no policy or directive can cover every use of force scenario. When I wrote our Response to Resistance and Aggression policy many years ago, I don't think I gave particular consideration to Molotov cocktails. I considered the more common threats such as firearms, edged weapons, vehicles, overwhelming physical force, and impact weapons. Sad to say, I don't think I gave much thought to Molotov cocktails or other weapons used by rioters. Slingshots come trippingly to mind as a rioter weapon that wasn't being used at the time.

                Does anyone have a policy that specifically covers Molotov cocktails or similar weapons?
                John from Maryland

                Comment


                • #9
                  Ours does not explicitly state "molotov cocktails " but it does state that justifiable use of DPF can be used against a suspect about to commit 1st or 2nd degree arson.
                  I make my living on Irish welfare.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Is a DVD a "deadly weapon"? If used as designed no. Put in the hands of a person intending to do harm, and yes, it can be. What's the point of this thread?

                    That aside, if I see a person preparing to throw an incendiary device like a Molotov Cocktail, I'm gonna shoot them in the wrist so that they drop the device and cause minimal harm. This way I can get a medal and be congratulated by Mr. obama for being a "hero". I strive to shine in the eyes of people like obama.
                    Getting shot hurts! Don't under estimate the power of live ammo. A .22LR can kill you! I personally feel that it's best to avoid being shot by any caliber. Your vest may stop the bullet, but you'll still get a nice bruise or other injury to remember the experience.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      If anyone picks up any object that may potentially kill, do serious harm or incapacitate me to the point where they may be able to disarm me, and makes a motion they intend to throw that object towards me, per policy yes.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The "law" answer would obviously be "yes", you could and should shoot a person who you reasonably believe, under the totality of the circumstances, is about to hurl a deadly weapon that spreads fire on it's intended target if it appears probable that it will indeed strike a person or there are people within the arc of the possible range it could be thrown. The "modern day reality" answer is that, unless you want to become a household name and have the entire weight of the Oval Office and Department of Justice, coming down on you, to say nothing of the media and massive army of low-info voters, then fire only if you or a fellow officer is immediately in danger of being struck by it. Anyone else is just going to have to get burned, so that you don't. Sad, but true.
                        Be dangerous, and unpredictable... and make a lot of noise. - John Bush, Anthrax

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Have black police officers trained in skeet shooting to handle these situations. That should cover all the bases.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            First call the rubbermen to extinguish the soon to occur blaze

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Georgetime View Post
                              The "law" answer would obviously be "yes", you could and should shoot a person who you reasonably believe, under the totality of the circumstances, is about to hurl a deadly weapon that spreads fire on it's intended target if it appears probable that it will indeed strike a person or there are people within the arc of the possible range it could be thrown. The "modern day reality" answer is that, unless you want to become a household name and have the entire weight of the Oval Office and Department of Justice, coming down on you, to say nothing of the media and massive army of low-info voters, then fire only if you or a fellow officer is immediately in danger of being struck by it. Anyone else is just going to have to get burned, so that you don't. Sad, but true.

                              This is why I posed the question... "Follow your policy" is the obvious answer. Darren Wilson probably followed policy - how is he doing?

                              So, does anyone know of any examples of deadly force being used against someone wielding a Molotov in the U.S.?
                              "Well I'd lock him up for what we know he did, and then throw in a few extra years for what he probably did." ~Hank Hill

                              "Why do you need to carry a gun? There aren't any bad people in this town..."

                              Comment

                              What's Going On

                              Collapse

                              There are currently 10560 users online. 574 members and 9986 guests.

                              Most users ever online was 19,482 at 11:44 AM on 09-29-2011.

                              Welcome Ad

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X