BP vs. ICE

[kirch]

Lately I seem to be running into a higher and higher percentage of illegal aliens. When I've got one, I've tried notifying Immigration and Customs Enforcement to see what they want to do. But they aren't too interested in one here and one there and most of these illegals end up right out back on the street.

I was talking to my brother about it and he said his department has a lot better luck by working with the Border Patrol.

For those who deal with this a lot more, which agency is more helpful in these kinds of situations? Am I not sweet-talking ICE enough, or should I start making some contacts with the BP?

[Bart]

we have alot of illegal haitians down here. we usually called border patrol and they were quick to send a dude to pick our guy up. i would never make the call myself. we have jailers who do it for us when we bring the guy into our holding facility. im not sure who they call nowadays being that there was a whole reorganization thing that the feds did after 9-11.

[retdetsgt]

I don't think ICE has the budget to deal with off the street illegals. They aren't the most popular federal agency and they've been under budget constraint at least since Carter. They probably need what money they have for particularly bad criminal illegals.

[jeeper]

Immigration will NOT deport unless the detainee is a convicted felon, previously deported alien, or in custody for a serious violent felony. USBP, on the other hand, will deport for ANYTHING, including just traffic. This is an issue which has been HOTLY contested lately, so I suggest taking it up with your chief before doing it, or being VERY good at asking for forgiveness when certain members of the public get ahold of it.

We had been deporting people through USBP for a month or so (never had them fail to place a hold). Well, finally, the local liberals and the media got ahold of it and filed MAJOR complaints with the Sheriff. Needless to say, we are NOT allowed to contact USBP anymore. However, there is nothing against the local agencies doing it (at least recently there hasn't been, I suggest asking a booking dep or one of your supervisors)!! I know that SUPD does it frequently still as well as the USMS and USBP doing sweeps locally and making deportation arrests. Very few agencies around here even know that they can do this. I think I've only seen a few (maybe 3 or 4) actually make contact with the Feds and get holds placed on illegals.

We are now required to ONLY notify the INS/ICE for future deportations. USBP had deported people for us from something like 10 different countries too. INS/ICE will almost never hold, it seems somewhat futile doing it now, but we're no longer "seperating families of good people through our draconian and discriminatory law enforcement practices" (true quote from Isthmus).

Recenlty I talked to a USBP agent who works this area out of Duluth. Since 9-11 he says that they have become an AWESOME place to work. Which may be why they are tightening the screws down on immigrants rather then just letting things slide like INS/ICE. Also, because they are no longer tied in with INS they have pretty much free reign and are allowed to really do their jobs (read: little supervision, and encouraged to make arrests). Strongly proposed working for them, granted he no longer has to work Meixcan border, so that may have been part of it.

[Nobody]

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[trackba3]

I took a class at school, "Intro to American Government". We talked very breifly about immigration and illegal aliens. If I can remember correctly, something like 2 million illegal aliens, but obviously they're undocumented so that number might be complete BS. Anyway, my teacher was saying how US merchants and factories and what not love having illegal aliens as workers because they can pay them less than minimum wage and the aliens won't exactly go to the government and complain because they are, duh, illegal.

Citizens have the "right of expatriation" which is the right of the individual to revoke their citizen ship at anytime. Legal aliens can only have their citizenship revoked if the government finds out they gained their citizenship by fraud.

Under the USA Patriot Act, non-citizens can be detained based on the Attorney General's certification that he has "reasonable grounds to believe" That the non-citizen endangers national security. Charges must be filed within 7 days, but they don't have to have anything to do with terrorism.

The Government is trying to pass a USA Patriot Act II, which would allow the government to strip citizenship from anny American who provides support for a group designated by the federal government as a terrorist organization. This probably won't pass, but they're trying for it.

Well, I put something I learned in school to use!
Just my 2cents.

[GCPD0171]

I think BP would laugh at me if I asked them to drive to NC. INS has told my agency before 9/11 that unless you have a bus load of illegals don't bother calling us. A few months ago a officer picked up a guy who was from India. He had a couple of fake ID's and receipts where he was wiring money back home. FBI came and got him. I think post 9/11 the Fed's are taking a harder look at some illegals. I hope that never fades back to the way it was. We need to seriously improve the security of or nation by starting at it's borders.

[SRT936]

We deal with Border Patrol on a fairly regular basis and they are VERY good at dealing with our foreigners. We have a major port here and have foreigners by the dozen coming off the boats causing trouble in town. Also, we being the northern end of a couple major north/south railroads we get a decent share of illegal mexicans. Lastly, being only a couple hours from Canada we get quite a few Candanians that commit crimes down here. We don't normally contact BP on the Candanians unless they get rowdy or aggressive. They put holds on just about everybody and are always ready to look into some of our "legal" residents that seems suspicious. Of course, we have a BP office right across the water too.

[LeslieBScott]

It's refreshing to here all this about Border Patrol. Thanks.

If you live in a border area, the BP will (usually - it depends on the station) be more than happy to place the detainer, pick up the alien and see to it that he/she is processed for deportation.

If BP is not nearby, however, it is hard to get a unit to go. This is where ICE is supposed to step in. With the creation of DHS, ICE and CBP, CBP is supposed to take care of the border and ICE is supposed to take care of the interior.

As far as Border Patrol being absorbed by customs - it depends on who you ask. According to Mr. Ridge, we are "One face at the border".
Ask a BP Agent, we belong to nobody.

I guess we are just stubborn old Bas***ds.

[larwar]

Here's the deal guys. I agree with everything that was said here in this thread. INS/ICE will not get involved for an isolated incident.

What you need to do is to find out where the illegal works. Do a quick investigation on that place. We have a lot of Greek restaurants around here, and all they do is hire tons of these illegals for bus boys, dishwashers, etc. They pay them less than min. wage in cash. They illegals love it, because it's way more than what they would be making in Mexico, or wherever.

Many times, the owners of the restaurant house them also. We had one house, a duplex, owned by the restaurant owner where the owner of the restaurant was charging each employee $100 a month to live there. The thing is, he had 14 living in the lower, and 10 living in the upper, which gave him $2400 a month.

If you can get intel like this from an illegal after he's arrested, the INS will get involved. Anytime you get a business, using illegals for this purpose, that's when the INS will get involved.

You see, then they are not just picking on these people and sending them home. They won't get the bleeding heart liberals busting their balls for enforceing the laws. They use the excuse that they are investigating the business, because the business is mistreating these poor illegal aliens, and we have to save them from this purgatory, where they are being abused by the ugly American business man. And send them all back home to Mexico where they are better off.

Then, in three months, when the business has paid its fine, and hired all new illegal aliens, you can start the process all over again. It's really kind of fun, you get to meet and become familiar with all kinds of Federal INS Agents.

The point is, it's a never ending battle. I am not defending the INS, but if they responded to every single illegal alien that was arrested by local cops, they would have to quadruple their work force. It just isn't feasable, or (and this is the biggest thing) cost effective.

[LeslieBScott]

Another thought --
If, after you have done the above investigation and can show the business is hiring illegals, and ICE is unable / unwilling to get involved, you may consider notifying Dept of Labor and/or IRS.

Usually, the business will pay the "undocumented migrants" below minimum wage and in cash. Minimum wage is a requirement, not a suggestion - Department of Labor. If they are paid in cash, then the wages are probably not being reported to the Infernal Revenue Service.

We had a case here where Border Patrol picked up a migrant worker (about 13 YOA). The INS wouldn't touch the case. DOL heard about it and severely fined the farmer.

Maybe if more businesses were punished for breaking the law (hiring illegal workers), then fewer would see America's streets paved with gold?

[jeeper]

Actually, the ICE/INS WILL get involved for isolated incidents. Our local contacts (who usually work out of the Milwaukee office) just request that we be able to confirm that the detainee is a CONFIRMED convicted felon or in custody for a violent felony. If either of these is the case, they will almost certainly place a hold on the illegal and have them detained generally within two weeks.

[LeslieBScott]

Just out of curiosity, does the new ICE work better than the old INS? Or about the same?

[LAS]

Calling an illegal alien an undocumented migrant is a bit like calling a burglar an uninvited houseguest. And does anyone really believe that an alien granted voluntary departure is really going to go home? It's a lot more complex than comparing legacy INS to ICE. The entire immigration system needs to be reformed, not just the enforcement end. The American public doesn't view entering illegally or overstaying a visa as a crime. And until it does, the problem will continue. The illegal immigration problem we have in this country is as much our own fault as it is those who pour over our borders. There is nothing to deter an illegal except a trip home to try again. The laws are written in favor of the aliens (the US is a "compassionate" nation). Bottom line, it's easier to enforce the law before the illegal alien unpacks his bag and sets up housekeeping in the US. Me, I want what was promised...ie. Chimera, et al.

[LeslieBScott]

When I refered to the "undocumented migrants" I was being sarcastically PC. I also refer to that class of persons as "customers".

I agree that the public opinion of the illegal immigration needs to become more realistic. I also agree that the courts need to take the problem more seriously.

However, in an atempt to avoid a political argument, I will rephrase the question.

Does the new ICE respond more quickly to your calls for assistance than the old INS?