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  • Does it Matter??

    Hello all;

    As a new member here, I'd like to ask a question. I've never had so many cops in one place before. Anyhow, up until a few months ago I thought I knew the answer to this question. Then a incident shook my confidence.

    This goes to the Professional Courtesy thread, which I won't rehash, just the short version for reference. I got pulled over for a seat belt violation. I wasn't wearing my belt, I forgot. I was driving my old beat up work truck, in my old beat up work clothes. I wasn't armed at the time. When he came up to the window I had my wallet out, my license is behind my badge. He sees my shield and asks where it's from, so I showed him, and told him where I worked. He took my paper and went back, brought me my ticket. I said to him, "No breaks for Brothers in this town huh?" His answer, "What makes you a Brother to ME!", I say "Cops are Cops Man". He just laughed and walked back to his car. This was a New York State Trooper by they way.

    I guess what I need to know is, am I a brother? Does it matter that my agency has failed to see the need to issue me a firearm yet?

    I am a New York State Safety Officer. I work for the Office of Mental Health. We are uniformed Peace Officers. Our cars say Police on them. If you stood me next to any other cop in the country you would only be able to tell the difference because he had a gun on his belt and I don't. We are expected to go out and perform V&T Stops, investigate EID's, Investigate suspicious vehicles, Suspicious persons, Illegal dumping, domestic disputes, EDP's, you name it. We also back up our local PD's on stops in our patrol area. Not because we have been told to, but because it's the right thing to do. How can we expect them to back us up, if we don't do the same for them.

    We have asked (hell begged) for some kind of protection but have been refused. All we are allowed is a baton. No gun, no vest, no OC. That fight continues.

    I know that the cops that we deal with on a daily basis consider us brothers. We watch out for them and they watch out for us. They ALWAYS take the time to thank us for stopping for them while they are out with a car. ALWAYS. There are a lot of cops on here though, and I'd like to hear a collective yea or nay I guess. My heart needs it. That trooper really hurt me when he laughed at me. I risk my *** every day too, same as him. I'd still back him up though....maybe I'm just stupid.

    Anyhow, thanks for listening. Some of it I just needed to get off my chest. I really would like to hear what you all have to say.

  • #2
    Re: Does it Matter??

    Originally posted by King Hugh
    Hello all;


    Does it matter that my agency has failed to see the need to issue me a firearm yet?


    What is the deal there? No gun? Troopers do what Troopers do everywhere, they write tickets and lots of them. I can tell you this, if you work in their post area they more then likely will not write you. I have been written by a city cop who would write the wives and children of guys he worked with, he was real fair...he wrote damn near everyone and he was roundly hated but he could've cared less. The trooper probably figured if he PO'd you so what, in his mind he has made peace with writing certain LE officers. So he is a jerk, big deal. You are doing the right thing in what you are doing, but god darn son get a job that allows you to carry a weapon and wear a vest, that would be a helluva lot more on my mind than a SB ticket.
    Trooperden, akman75, & azmichelle ignored

    Comment


    • #3
      6233108, Thanks for the post.

      The Tic was not a big concern. More a PIA than anything. I sent in the $60 bucks. I WAS guilty afterall.

      No gun, vest or OC....see we are at the whim of each individual director for the facilitys at wich we work. We have requested OC and vests, they have replied that they don't feel that we need them. These are the same people who expect us to pull cars over at 3AM. Firearms would be a law issue. The CPL grants us Peace Officer status, but without the provision to cary firearms. I, and many of my fellow officers are licensed to carry, and do so off duty, but cannot on duty. To change that would be a big deal. We are challenging all of this, but as I'm sure you can imagine it's an uphill battle.

      It's sad and scary. The state of NY has 750 uniformed special police officers, many of whom are licensed to carry firearms, who are REQUIRED to take off their gun, BEFORE they put on their POLICE UNIFORM, and go drive around in their POLICE CAR. Sometimes it makes me sick to think about it. There are a lot of guys who lay low, and don't 'really' do their jobs for fear that they will be facing an armed subject. I can't blame them, but I can't join them either. I go do my job every day. See, told you I was stupid.

      Thanks again. Good to talk to you.

      Comment


      • #4
        My thoughts are we are all brothers.... POLICE is POLICE.
        He was an ***. Troopers here are the same way. IMHO if you are a LEO anywhere and you have your shield AND ID, no ticket from me.

        STAY SAFE
        In law enforcement, the customer is ALWAYS wrong.

        In God we trust. Everyone else is run through NCIC.

        Sometimes there is justice. Sometimes there is just us.

        I'd rather be tried by 12 then carried by 6.


        The opinions given in my posts do not necessarily reflect the opinions, views, policies, and/or procedures of my employing agency. They are my personal opinions only.

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks Sflcop.

          You do the same.

          Comment


          • #6
            On a similar note here, In my city we have 3 state prisons. The outside guards patrol the grounds in pickup trucks with lights on them, and carry firearms. Occasionally (since the prisons are in the city), I drive onto the property just to let them know I am there and to make sure all is well. Not long ago I was driving on the property and pulled into one of the employee parking lots to turn around, when one of the guards pulled up next to me. I figured he wanted to chat so I rolled the window down and said hello. He says " YOU ARE IN A RESTRICTED AREA AND HAVE TO LEAVE RIGHT NOW!" I give him a crazy look and say "I'm the police guy relax". Mind you I am in a marked cruiser wearing a full uniform. This guy goes on to tell me he could arrest me for trespassing if I refuse to leave. I tell him "good luck with all that", roll up my window and drive away from him. He followed me until I was off the property. It was close to shift change for the guards so I waited outside the gates HOPING he would drive out in his POV but either I missed him or he didn't leave.... What a jackass.

            Back to your situation, all I have to say is... I don't police the police...
            Deputy Brandy L. Winfield
            RIP - October 14, 2004

            www.ar15armory.com

            Comment


            • #7
              King Hugh,

              Getting out of a ticket is something you should never expect... Usually you will not get written, but there's no such thing as entitlement to do what you want while driving.

              That being said, most cops probably wouldn't have written you. But the bottom line is you didn't have your seat belt fasten..

              On my side of the country, you're probably not going to be written by the state police. Or for that matter, any cops in major cities or deputy sheriffs. Our state cops are just that, cops. They do criminal investigations as well as traffic enforcement. I've never found them to be anything but professional and courteous to other police.

              But if any of you come to Oregon, beware the small towns. Oregon's tax base has gotten so screwed up by tax intiatives that many little bitty towns here depend on fine revenues for operating. And the cops are little more than ATM machines. They each have a municipal judge that hammers anyone that comes into their court, few, very few are ever found not guilty. And I overheard one small city administrator say that if they judge they hire doesn't bring in the bucks, they hire another. They aren't elected.

              I'm not saying that they will always write you, but be careful.
              "Life's tough, it's tougher if you're stupid." John Wayne

              Comment


              • #8
                Man Bike, he WAS a jerk. We jump for joy to have the outside agencies come to visit.

                I get the impression that you count us as Brothers, except for maybe one guy . Thanks for the response.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by King Hugh
                  .

                  I get the impression that you count us as Brothers, except for maybe one guy .
                  You guessed it!!
                  Deputy Brandy L. Winfield
                  RIP - October 14, 2004

                  www.ar15armory.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    RetDetSgt;

                    Thanks for the heads up. I agree, and copped to it. I admitted I was wrong and paid the fine. I was surprised to be cited, since I have been extended professional courtesy over the years, but it was justified. The thing I was really put off by was the treatment.

                    What is your opinion of our status though? Are we brothers in blue, or are we somewhat less?

                    Thanks Again;

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      You are as far as I'm concerned. I wouldn't have written you...
                      "Life's tough, it's tougher if you're stupid." John Wayne

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        See, this is what bothers me. retdetsgt is right, PC should not be expected. HOWEVER, I do not see how a LEO can write a LEO. Granted, if it is a situation where I do not have a choice (DUI accident etc...), I will do what I have to do, but DISCRETION is a HUGE part of being a LEO. IMHO, whether you work in a small town, medium town, big town, sh&t even Indian Reservation Police, you are a LEO. We all put on our uniform every day (most of us to serve a greater purpose in life), and go out there and face the situations most others turn on the 11 oclock news to find out about. How one can cite another for a stupid traffic infraction is beyond me. A non moving violation at that. To add to that the fact that this ***h&le said "What makes you a Brother to ME!", is beyond me. Perfect example of brotherhood... I have a take home unit that I use a lot of the time when I am off duty. It does not matter if I am in my city, or another, if I pass a LEO on a traffic stop, I will ALWAYS slow enough to give and receive a thumbs up... just to make sure a fellow brother/sister is ok, and does not need a backup, even if it is just until his/hers gets there. I would want the same from anyone that saw me on the side of the road. That is what makes us different from the general public that drives right by thinking "sucks to be that person." We all bleed red, but we all are BROTHERS IN BLUE.
                        In law enforcement, the customer is ALWAYS wrong.

                        In God we trust. Everyone else is run through NCIC.

                        Sometimes there is justice. Sometimes there is just us.

                        I'd rather be tried by 12 then carried by 6.


                        The opinions given in my posts do not necessarily reflect the opinions, views, policies, and/or procedures of my employing agency. They are my personal opinions only.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I guess that whole thing sorta struck a chord with me. When I'm stopped by someone in my old agency or another, I'm one polite, remorseful sumbitch. I give them my license and ID card at the same time. I apologize profusely for whatever it was I did and yes, I always knew what I did. A couple of times I thought they were going to write me and I just kept my mouth shut. It ticked me off more that they ran me more than anything, I guess. One guy gave me a written warning. I accepted it without comment. If he had given me a regular citation, I would have done the same thing. I'm not going to beg or rag on some guy for writting me. If I screwed up, I screwed up. Getting a break isn't a gimme.

                          I have never written a cop a ticket, but I have tapped my pen on my citation book a couple of times thinking about it. The cops were arrogant and acted entitled. Both seemed to be ****ed because I was wasting THEIR time. And I didn't stop people for piddelly little stuff. If I stopped you for a traffic violation, it was a good one!
                          Most however, were like me. Polite, remorseful and told me they were cops right away so I didn't have to mess with voiding a citation. That ticks me off too! We are brothers, but you gotta treat the guy who stopped you like one too. You're wasting HIS time.
                          Jim
                          "Life's tough, it's tougher if you're stupid." John Wayne

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            retdetsgt, i could not have said it better myself.
                            In law enforcement, the customer is ALWAYS wrong.

                            In God we trust. Everyone else is run through NCIC.

                            Sometimes there is justice. Sometimes there is just us.

                            I'd rather be tried by 12 then carried by 6.


                            The opinions given in my posts do not necessarily reflect the opinions, views, policies, and/or procedures of my employing agency. They are my personal opinions only.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I stopped a car once for a vehicle code violation, and as I reached the drivers window, he put his badge outside the window, looked at me and said, "shove off mack, **PD". Needless to say I was slightly hurt. Now I never but never lecture a cop I have stopped, but this guy got two full barrels from me. I still didn't issue a citaton.
                              Retired

                              Comment

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