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  • LEOSA and AMTRAK

    Will be riding AMTRAK to the family Christmas gathering.

    I've read the past threads regarding LEOSA and carry on AMTRAK.

    Most were a few years old.

    Has any of that been clarified in the past couple years?
    "I am a Soldier. I fight where I'm told and I win where I fight." -- GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

    "With a brother on my left and a sister on my right, we face…. We face what no one should face. We face, so no one else would face. We are in the face of Death." -- Holli Peet

  • #2
    Last time I read the AMTRAK website, they were very clear about NO CCW and firearms had to be checked in advance and "Approved/Accepted" by AMTRAK.

    It appeared they were treating guns like air travel does.

    From the AMTRAK website:

    Firearms in Checked Baggage

    Effective December 15, 2010, Amtrak will accept reservations of firearms and ammunition for carriage between Amtrak stations and on Amtrak trains within the United States that offer checked baggage service. Thruway Bus Services will not be included in this service change. The following policies are in effect:

    Notification that the passenger will be checking firearms/ammunition must be made no later than 24 hours before train departure by calling Amtrak at 800-USA-RAIL. Online reservations for firearms/ammunition are not accepted.

    The passengers must travel on the same train that is transporting the checked firearms and/or ammunition.

    All firearms and/or ammunition must be checked at least 30 minutes prior to scheduled train departure. Some larger stations require that baggage be checked earlier. Please contact your departure station for more details.

    All firearms (rifles, shotguns, handguns, starter pistols) must be unloaded and in an approved, locked hard-sided container not exceeding 62" L x 17" W x 7" D (1575 mm x 432 mm x 178 mm). The passenger must have sole possession of the key or the combination for the lock to the container. The weight of the container may not exceed 50 lb/23 kg.

    Smaller locked, hard-sided containers containing smaller unloaded firearms such as handguns and starter pistols must be securely stored within a suitcase or other item of checked baggage, but the existence of such a firearm must be declared.

    All ammunition carried must be securely packed in the original manufacturer's container; in fiber, wood, or metal boxes; or in other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition. The maximum weight of all ammunition and containers may not exceed 11 lb/5 kg.

    The passenger is responsible for knowing and following all federal, state, and local firearm laws at all jurisdictions to and through which he or she will be travelling.

    All other Amtrak checked baggage policies apply, including limits on the number of pieces of checked baggage, the maximum weight of each piece (50 lb/23 kg).

    Firearms/ammunition may not be carried in carry-on baggage; therefore, checked baggage must be available on all trains and at all stations in the passenger's itinerary.

    At the time of check-in, passengers will be required to complete and sign a two-part Declaration Form.

    BB guns and Compressed Air Guns (to include paintball markers), are to be treated as firearms and must comply with the above firearms policy. Canisters, tanks, or other devices containing propellants must be emptied prior to checking and securely packaged within the contents of the passenger's luggage.

    Passengers failing to meet the above-mentioned requirements for checking firearms will be denied transportation.

    Passengers wanting to inquire about or begin the firearms reservation process should use the Contact Us page to select "Checked Firearms Program" as the subject and follow guidance.


    http://www.amtrak.com/firearms-in-ch..._group=Baggage

    I don't know of any LAWS prohibiting concealed carry on AMTRAK, but I am not an attorney or legal expert so act accordingly at your own risk...

    Another option would be to call AMTRAK and ask specific questions about LEOSA. Good luck!
    Last edited by chiefjack; 12-01-2014, 11:19 PM.
    My comments are my personal opinion and are based on my life experiences and training. They are not to be construed as legal advice in any form as I am not an attorney. Should you act on any of the information I provide in my comments, you do so at your own risk!!

    Comment


    • #3
      About 1.5 years ago, I called the AMTRAK Police phone number and asked. The lady said local LEOs are not authorized to carry on AMTRAK trains, since AMTRAK is Federal.

      I think the lady is full of poop. I carry, deep concealment.

      Comment


      • #4
        Last time I read the AMTRAK website, they were very clear about NO CCW and firearms had to be checked in advance and "Approved/Accepted" by AMTRAK.
        Thanks for posting that, but what you posted only addresses baggage. I won't have a firearm in my baggage, I'll have it on my person.

        I haven't found anything that says I can't do that.

        I carry, deep concealment.
        What kind of security is there?
        "I am a Soldier. I fight where I'm told and I win where I fight." -- GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

        "With a brother on my left and a sister on my right, we face…. We face what no one should face. We face, so no one else would face. We are in the face of Death." -- Holli Peet

        Comment


        • #5
          You DO understand that as a Commercial Carrier, AMTRAK can forbid the carrying of weapons on their trains. It's the same rules as Commercial Aircraft.
          Now go home and get your shine box!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by CCCSD View Post
            You DO understand that as a Commercial Carrier, AMTRAK can forbid the carrying of weapons on their trains. It's the same rules as Commercial Aircraft.
            Firearms are prohibited on aircraft because of federal law.

            Is there a law that prohibits carry on trains?
            "I am a Soldier. I fight where I'm told and I win where I fight." -- GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

            "With a brother on my left and a sister on my right, we face…. We face what no one should face. We face, so no one else would face. We are in the face of Death." -- Holli Peet

            Comment


            • #7
              They can prohibit weapons on a common carrier.
              Now go home and get your shine box!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by tanksoldier View Post
                Thanks for posting that, but what you posted only addresses baggage. I won't have a firearm in my baggage, I'll have it on my person.

                I haven't found anything that says I can't do that.



                What kind of security is there?
                This is the closest I could find on their website, and if you interpret it liberally, if you can't carry in your carry-on baggage, I assume you can't carry on your person. Both relate to accessibility in my interpretation.

                "Firearms/ammunition may not be carried in carry-on baggage;"

                As far as security goes, I have been on AMTRAK 5 times and have seen no one except other passengers and the Conductor. Possibly there are non-uniformed people like Air Marshals on board, but I don't know.
                My comments are my personal opinion and are based on my life experiences and training. They are not to be construed as legal advice in any form as I am not an attorney. Should you act on any of the information I provide in my comments, you do so at your own risk!!

                Comment


                • #9
                  AMTRAK Police number in the 200-300 range concentrated around the Boston-DC Line and Philly area. Sure they are in CA and Chicago but active patrol? Response? You will get the local transit cop there long before APD shows up. Still, CCCSD is right, they view it the same as an airplane. I ride our local train regularly and AMTRAK when I can. I carry locally but not so much on AMTRAK.

                  There are no "FAMS" in APD, except for targeted investigations based assignments. Now-TSA "VIPER" teams... The random walking 5.11 mannequins... That's a another story.
                  semper destravit

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    It all depends where you are traveling from. I've rode from DC-Union Station into Philly-30th street and have carried. There are no security checks or anything like it that I've encountered. I didn't notify anyone because it never really came up

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      To elaborate, I live and work in CA and have taken the central CA Amtrak Lines about 25 times in the past two years. In that time I've seen exactly ONE Amtrak PD Officer and he walked past me and the guy three rows down who stank of MJ without even looking at either of us.

                      I'm pretty sure that in CA many Amtrak PD Officers are investigators assigned to specific issues. We deal with them for when Amtrak trains hit people, then they send a Special Agent out.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by CCCSD View Post
                        They can prohibit weapons on a common carrier.
                        What law makes it illegal?

                        In Colorado, where I will be boarding the train, a private property owner's policy has no force of law. If an employee spots the gun asks me to leave I have to or be charged with trespassing... but policies, signs, etc mean nothing.

                        I haven't been able to find a law, state or federal, that prohibits LEOs from carrying on a train. I'm a cop: I obey and enforce the law, not what somebody thinks the law is or should be.
                        "I am a Soldier. I fight where I'm told and I win where I fight." -- GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

                        "With a brother on my left and a sister on my right, we face…. We face what no one should face. We face, so no one else would face. We are in the face of Death." -- Holli Peet

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Maybe it is time for AMTRAK to take another look at their policies...

                          http://www.policeone.com/edged-weapo...spect-charged/
                          My comments are my personal opinion and are based on my life experiences and training. They are not to be construed as legal advice in any form as I am not an attorney. Should you act on any of the information I provide in my comments, you do so at your own risk!!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Commercial Carriers can restrict the carrying of firearms. How hard is that to understand? Per LEOSA, you can carry almost anywhere, but you can't on a commercial aircraft. Busses, trains, cruise ships can regulate it also.
                            Now go home and get your shine box!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by CCCSD View Post
                              Commercial Carriers can restrict the carrying of firearms. How hard is that to understand? Per LEOSA, you can carry almost anywhere, but you can't on a commercial aircraft. Busses, trains, cruise ships can regulate it also.
                              I spent some time looking at the Code Federal Regulations online and could not find any law specifically prohibiting firearms on AMTRAK. I found legislation allowing AMTRAK to regulate firearms in their baggage as stated in their policy, but nothing prohibiting CCW on their trains.

                              United States Code:

                              http://uscode.house.gov/search.xhtml...alse%3A|false|[%3A%3A%3A%3A%3A%3A%3A%3Afalse%3A]|[%3A]

                              AMTRAK Legislation for Firearms:

                              http://uscode.house.gov/statviewer.h...=123&page=3061

                              Here is a link to some real hot gun attorneys. Maybe they can help.

                              http://www.calgunlaws.com/
                              Last edited by chiefjack; 12-06-2014, 08:48 PM.
                              My comments are my personal opinion and are based on my life experiences and training. They are not to be construed as legal advice in any form as I am not an attorney. Should you act on any of the information I provide in my comments, you do so at your own risk!!

                              Comment

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