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Are there any medium to larger size departments with liberal pursuit policies anymore

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  • Are there any medium to larger size departments with liberal pursuit policies anymore

    I've only been employed by one department, and it's a larger department. We have a very strict vehicle pursuit policy as it seems is the case with any large metropolitan department. Are there any larger departments that are still letting pursuits go for evading from a simple traffic stop, etc.? Mere curiosity.
    Last edited by Ignite; 12-01-2014, 08:18 AM.

  • #2
    We can pursue for traffic violations, but the likelihood of the pursuit being terminated for erratic/dangerous driving is higher. A stronger offense may lead a little more tolerance of erratic or dangerous driving. If things start getting stupid though (blowing multiple traffic lights or stop signs at speed, driving into oncoming traffic, etc.) we are shutting it down.
    We are limited to 2 officers and 1 supervisor directly involved in the chase, although the supervisor is rarely in a position to actually be in the chase. A K-9 may latch on as a 3rd unit if they are able to link up with the pursuit. Any other units may parallel or get in front to set up stop sticks, but may not violate traffic laws in doing so.
    We also have the air support caveat. Once our helicopter gets on scene and advises that they are taking over the pursuit, all ground units terminate. They may continue to follow the pursuit, but only driving at normal speeds, observing all traffic laws, and not Code 3. The helicopter will continue to provide updates and direct other units to the area or to set up a perimeter once the suspect stops.

    Any deviation from this policy must be justified (which we've done from time to time due to the circumstances).
    Anything worth shooting is worth shooting 3 or 4 times.

    M-11

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    • #3
      Originally posted by 5031OKC View Post
      We can pursue for traffic violations, but the likelihood of the pursuit being terminated for erratic/dangerous driving is higher. A stronger offense may lead a little more tolerance of erratic or dangerous driving. If things start getting stupid though (blowing multiple traffic lights or stop signs at speed, driving into oncoming traffic, etc.) we are shutting it down.
      We are limited to 2 officers and 1 supervisor directly involved in the chase, although the supervisor is rarely in a position to actually be in the chase. A K-9 may latch on as a 3rd unit if they are able to link up with the pursuit. Any other units may parallel or get in front to set up stop sticks, but may not violate traffic laws in doing so.
      We also have the air support caveat. Once our helicopter gets on scene and advises that they are taking over the pursuit, all ground units terminate. They may continue to follow the pursuit, but only driving at normal speeds, observing all traffic laws, and not Code 3. The helicopter will continue to provide updates and direct other units to the area or to set up a perimeter once the suspect stops.

      Any deviation from this policy must be justified (which we've done from time to time due to the circumstances).
      Interesting. I mentioned our strict policy. Not only is it strict, but we can face disciplinary action for just attempting to initiate a pursuit that does not meet a certain list of criteria.

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      • #4
        We've never lost the ability to pursue. However, the circumstances under which a pursuit will be terminated are much broader than they used to be (which was pretty much chase them until they gave up, bailed, or crashed). Over time you find that some supervisors will terminate most pursuits almost immediately, while others will wait until the suspect is doing something definitively sketchy before terminating.

        It's a good policy though. It has worked for us. We still chase bad guys, but the number of times we've had suspects crash into citizens has gone WAY down. Our guys have learned not to take it personally when a pursuit gets terminated. They know it's nothing against them. I would say probably 20% of our terminated pursuits are terminated by the pursuing officer themselves making the decision that the ends are no longer justifying the means.
        Anything worth shooting is worth shooting 3 or 4 times.

        M-11

        Comment


        • #5
          I have heard "complaints" from neighboring jurisdictions that when they end up in a chase, the radio turns to digital soup and they don't hear the cease order. Weird.

          We still chase anything that wants to run. The last chase I was in, was anything BUT a "chase". I think we topped out at about 23 mph. I almost terminated because my car was acting up from going so slow.....

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          • #6
            As a veteran-to veteran question I have to ask: Why do you WANT to get into pursuits? Any veteran I know of doesn't want to or at best is indifferent about pursuits. Your question seems odd to me.......

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            • #7
              Sorry , but a small rural department.

              We will (and often do) chase until the wheels fall off.
              Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

              My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

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              • #8
                california......

                also one county agency in Florida has a policy that if you start a chase and the suspect gets away, you get suspended for two days. At least, that's what I heard.
                September 11, 2001 - All gave some, some gave all. Never forget -- Never forgive.......... RIP Brothers and Sisters.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by So Fla Cop View Post
                  california......

                  also one county agency in Florida has a policy that if you start a chase and the suspect gets away, you get suspended for two days. At least, that's what I heard.
                  That's one way to stop guys from initiating a pursuit.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by hemicop View Post
                    As a veteran-to veteran question I have to ask: Why do you WANT to get into pursuits? Any veteran I know of doesn't want to or at best is indifferent about pursuits. Your question seems odd to me.......
                    When it's something legit, pursuits are ******. In five years on I have only been in one no-**** pursuit, of three armed robbers, and I have to say that was probably the most ***** I've had on the job so far. Of course a big part of that is because we got the ****ers, and no good guys/bystanders got hurt.

                    In general, these days, I tend to agree with strict pursuit policies.. except for DUIs. We're not allowed to chase them either, and that really ****es me off because it blatantly puts public safety behind liability.
                    Last edited by Chomp; 01-03-2015, 02:41 PM.

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                    • #11
                      There's nothing "awesome" about a pursuit. You put yourself & many, many others at risk based on the behavior of some idiot that wants to prove he can outdrive you. The liability potential fatalities to those uninvolved to warrant it when sound, simple tactics can accomplish the same thing.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Iowa #1603 View Post
                        Sorry , but a small rural department.

                        We will (and often do) chase until the wheels fall off.
                        THIS! I wish I could speak for a medium/large department but I cannot.

                        I work a RURAL area and we pursue for minor traffic violations. We will chase until they run out of gas if we have to. It's also common to pursue into other counties and happens quite frequently.

                        I wouldn't have a problem with a strict pursuit policy either, I can see both sides.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by nightrider43 View Post
                          THIS! I wish I could speak for a medium/large department but I cannot.

                          I work a RURAL area and we pursue for minor traffic violations. We will chase until they run out of gas if we have to. It's also common to pursue into other counties and happens quite frequently.

                          I wouldn't have a problem with a strict pursuit policy either, I can see both sides.
                          Yea, but around me they let the officers or supervisors make a decision.

                          I was listening to a chase a couple years ago from the county next to me where they were chasing the guy on gravel roads and county highways trying to stop him. Between the Sheriff's cars and the State Patrol they had the guy boxed but couldn't get him stopped. He "missed' several stop sticks etc

                          A couple of the deputies stopped to gas up in one of the small towns and was back for the finish of the chase. WHICH ended up with a hostage situation and a standoff. It all started over a stop sign violation and ended up with felony charges
                          Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

                          My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by hemicop View Post
                            As a veteran-to veteran question I have to ask: Why do you WANT to get into pursuits? Any veteran I know of doesn't want to or at best is indifferent about pursuits. Your question seems odd to me.......
                            Because if you don't chase, then it will take about 5 minutes for word to get out that all you have to do to get away with a crime is run from the po-po. In the county I work, if they make it to 1 of about 10 Section 8 housing projects in one city (we call the hub) - you will never find them. The car will be reported stolen about 3 days later and then about a week later it will be found burned out in a ravine.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Shush View Post
                              Because if you don't chase, then it will take about 5 minutes for word to get out that all you have to do to get away with a crime is run from the po-po. In the county I work, if they make it to 1 of about 10 Section 8 housing projects in one city (we call the hub) - you will never find them. The car will be reported stolen about 3 days later and then about a week later it will be found burned out in a ravine.
                              If they want to run, they'll run whether you chase them or not. Large PDs. or densely populated areas will (hopefully) have stricter policies & better tactics to deal with fleeing felons & I guarantee you the ghetto-dwellers don't care about your lights & siren, much less your life. A pursuit ending in you wrecking or killing an innocent is serious enough but for you to lose your life simply to "prove" to these idiots that you're not going to back-off is just selfish. Your fellow LEOs & more importantly family are relying on you to make the right decisions & come home at the end of shift. An LEO forgetting about all that just to catch some dirtball is a liability, not an asset.
                              When I came on my PD we'd chase all over the place, even ran a guy down all the way to Yuma (check a map) but as time went on we got smarter, adapted & developed policies & techniques to eliminate most pursuits. We still have a few. But the days of 6,8 even 20 cars involved are pretty much gone.

                              Comment

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