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Professional Courtesy : How To

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  • #31
    Last edited by BorderRat; 09-10-2003, 06:23 PM.

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    • #32
      Bart: I understand where you are coming from. My question is this:If the star witness was that bad,how come the defense didn't bring up his work history? Surely he had some type of disciplinary history with his dept being he had those types of problems. I'm not taking up for him,or the SWAT guys. But there has to be more to it on either side. Yes,contrary to popular belief there are instances where you could justifiably shoot an unarmed perp,especially in a SWAT situation. As a SWAT member myself,NO other non SWAT officer will make an entry with the team. Secondary officers will come in after we have cleared the building of all threats and all suspects/offenders are secured. How did this so called "witness" actually get into a position where he could "see" the SWAT guys "plant" a weapon. Something is fishy in that case anyway you look at it.
      If you stare into the abyss long enough,sometimes it stares back.

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      • #33
        Bart: I understand where you are coming from. My question is this:If the star witness was that bad,how come the defense didn't bring up his work history?
        Please tell me you're not that naive....In some communities, a random sampling of 12 people will produce a jury that gives more credibility to crach whores and drug dealers than policemen. Cops are routinely convicted on the word of people with poor "work histories".

        How does one give professional courtesy to an ex-convict?
        I know several cops who have been to prison who I'd trust a lot quicker than a lot of men and women who are still "members in good standing". As far as guards/vs police officers, I know at least a few prisons hire ex-convicts as guards. Some type of liberal social program. As far as those of you who will judge a cop based on the fact that he went to prison, assuming that if he was innocent the jury would have said so....I hope you can experience being on trial some day and be judged by 12 people who were either unemployable or too stupid to be able to get out of jury duty.....If you work in the ghetto hard enough and long enough, there's a lot better chance that you'll wind up on trial than win the lottery....

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        • #34
          Originally posted by J.DIXON
          Bart: I understand where you are coming from. My question is this:If the star witness was that bad,how come the defense didn't bring up his work history? Surely he had some type of disciplinary history with his dept being he had those types of problems. I'm not taking up for him,or the SWAT guys. But there has to be more to it on either side. How did this so called "witness" actually get into a position where he could "see" the SWAT guys "plant" a weapon. Something is fishy in that case anyway you look at it.
          the officer who turn into a rat was a tac guy himself. as far as the trial.... i live in a very anti police environment. minorities happened to be the "victims" in this case so you know how that goes. think about this, the average american reads at a sixth grade level. however, it takes a person who has a reading level of AT LEAST an eleventh grade level to understand the complexities of our laws. so how is it that our uneducated society supposed to decipher between right and wrong according to the letter of the law when they cant understand it completely? it all comes down to politics and their personal feelings. in essence im saying that the american justice system sucks.
          "The American public will find it refreshing to see a Republican candidate, who's not a moralistic, sexually repressed, crusading hypocrite, who cruises airport men's rooms late at night."
          William Shatner

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          • #35
            Yeah the justice system sucks. As far as the race card I had a situation awhile back where a former shift commander (black) tried to have my job because he disagreed with an arrest I made. I found out later that he is also a grand poo-bah in the local NAACP chapter. Ever since then I have wondered 2 things.

            1. Who's side is he really on.

            2. If he can help someone get a large sum of money in a civil suit,did they promise him a cut of the check?

            Makes me want to puke.
            If you stare into the abyss long enough,sometimes it stares back.

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            • #36
              Last edited by BorderRat; 09-10-2003, 06:23 PM.

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              • #37
                This thread was started by Sentinel to bring up a very important point...the big DIFFERENCES in LE across the country. TJ mentioned COs getting professional courtesy...some in this thread agreed, some did not. I have a feeling that is because of the professionalism of the COs in their area. In my area, COs aren't actual "LE" per se as they would be in TJ's area or in FL and NJ, for example. In those areas, COs are actual deputies that (correct me if I'm wrong, and I probably am) some of which are dually trained for both corrections and patrol. In my area, the COs are prison guards....period. We have some very professionally run facilities...and we have some rotten jails that are run by the inmates, themselves. I would be more inclined to extend professional courtesy to a deputy. BUT, that does not for one moment mean that I don't respect the job that is done by COs. I would not do that job for an amount of money.

                As for Frank? I'm still waiting for him to drive through...I have special plans for him
                Last edited by Traffic*Goddess; 09-07-2003, 08:43 PM.

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                • #38
                  There is a difference throughout the country in LE. I'm a C/O for the NJ Dept. of Corrections and we are fully certified law enforcement officers with full police power 24/7 and we do carry off duty. We are in the same pension and same union (PBA or FOP) as our street officers. We are not $10 an hour "prison guards", we are officers so I guess were more likely to get PC in NJ or NYC (WHICH ALSO HAS FULL POWER) because of our LE status. I was just stopped by the NJSP on a highway for speeding at 2300 hours going to the hospital to see a family member and in uniform. I pulled over right away, interior light on, and hands on the wheel. The Troop asked where I worked and said "ok, no problem. Have a good nite" I know the drill from being a reserve officer for three years. Anyway, there are differences all over the country and most C/O's throughout the country do NOT have LE status like we do here.

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                  • #39
                    Okay, just to show I am not as tough as I make myself sound (putting down my teddy bear so I can type easier):

                    I was running radar the other day, and got a reading of excessive speed (not specified, in order to protect the guilty!). Signal as the car goes by, turn around and pull up behind it as it stops shortly after. The driver starts to open his door to get out, and I warned him to just stay in his seat and close the door, which he does. As I walk up to the driver's door, I start to go through my little speech about how in some jurisdictions such actions could result in a LEO/PO pointing a gun at him and him getting shot. Then I realize that it was 2 members of my Force in plain-clothes in an unmarked patrol vehicle coming back from a work-shop.

                    There is a definite procedure for handling such incidents, and I followed it to the letter. I called him everything under the sun and told him to leave, then called back on the radio and reminded him that he buys the next time we are in the Mess!
                    #32936 - Royal Canadian Mounted Police - 1975-10-27 / 2010-12-29
                    Proud Dad of #54266 - RCMP - 2007-02-12 to date
                    RCMP Veterans Association - Regina Division member
                    Mounted Police Professional Association of Canada - Associate (Retired) member
                    "Smile" - no!

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                    • #40
                      Guys and Gals:

                      Thanks for all of your insightful posts. Let me clarify for certain individuals who know who you are. I am a Corrections Officer - NOT a Prison Guard. I do not stand in one place all day, I do not sit around and watch my *** grow, and I consider myself to be quite proactive, especially when dealing with our STGs(Security Threat Groups -aka Gangs).

                      I am not a Police Officer. That is for sure. However, under the Arizona Revised Statutes(13-1310), I am authorized to carry a concealed weapon off-duty just like the Police and Sheriff's Offices. I do not have the power of arrest outside of my Prison Facility, but I do understand how important it is for PDs and Sheriff's Dept personnell to work together.

                      BorderRat said:

                      "I've never had a good experience with any corrections officer, in many years of high volume work. If you've had better then that speaks well of the co's in your area - I've worked both coasts and dealt with local, state, and federal co's and they've all been the same. They seem to identify more with the prisoners than with the police officers, they will not assist leo's with a problem prisoner, they'll do nearly anything to avoid taking the prisoner - and they only deal with the prisoner after much of the unknown has already been dealt with by the cops. Just isn't the same to me. I did not say that their job was easier or better... there are lots of jobs that are harder and more dangerous than LEO's, do they all get courtesy as well?"


                      To clarify: In Arizona, Inmates get only what they have coming to them per Federal Law. The officers I work with understand this point, and agree with me that Inmates are in prison to be punished, not to make friends. I DO NOT identify with those inmates. Never have, never will. In this state, we take specialized training to identify when an inmate is trying to play us. It works.

                      To touch base on assisting with a problem prisoner, come to Arizona! I have a brother Officer we'll call "Ben." "Ben" and another Officer were driving back to his house, along a dark rural road when they rolled up on a Sheriff's Deputy who needed assistance. Ben asked "Do you need help?" and the S.D. said yes. Ben and the other officer helped the S.D. by pulling the prisoner off of him, and restraining him while the S.D. recovered quickly.

                      My point is this: Our jobs rely heavily on each other to be done. Without Police and S.D. and Highway Patrol, there would be nothing for COs to do. On the other hand, if there were no Corrections Officers and prisons, the Law Enforcement Community would be nothing but fish and game. Catch and release. We both do importan jobs for public safety. Why don't we just agree to disagree, and move on professionally.

                      Fraternal Regards,
                      T.J. Jeznach

                      p.s. - anyone who would like to touch base off board, I can be emailed through this message board, or on Yahoo messenger as prariedogcop.
                      Attached Files

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                      • #41
                        I stopped a state CO here yesterday. Car showed expired 2001. He jumps out and shoves his ID in my face, then pulls it away. I told him, if you are going to stick it in my face, at least let me read it. I didn't like him jumping out and acting like he was god.

                        I didnt cite nor take his car, but I thought about it today and should have. How many times has he been stopped with way over due registration and no proof of insurance and blown it off? When I told him what could happen, he laughed at me. I pay my registration and have insurance.

                        I believe in respect, but give me a break.
                        "Don't bother to run, you will only go to jail tired!"

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by flatbadge
                          I stopped a state CO here yesterday. Car showed expired 2001. He jumps out and shoves his ID in my face, then pulls it away. I told him, if you are going to stick it in my face, at least let me read it. I didn't like him jumping out and acting like he was god.

                          I didnt cite nor take his car, but I thought about it today and should have. How many times has he been stopped with way over due registration and no proof of insurance and blown it off? When I told him what could happen, he laughed at me. I pay my registration and have insurance.

                          I believe in respect, but give me a break.
                          I am not knocking you, but the guy you stopped - that was just pure ignorance!

                          If he tries to argue, "Well, Sears' employees get a 20% discount!", then it's time to say to him, "Well, sparky, go work for Sears! Oh, by the way, if you start right now, you should be able to hitch a ride, because that sound you hear is the local tow truck hooking up your ride. My name and Agency? It's right here, on the ticket and impound chit. Have a better day!"

                          A few days, no problem. But 2 years!?! If he can't afford to renew the plates and/or insurance, then he better learn to ride a bike, take mass transit or arrange for a ride with a co-worker.
                          #32936 - Royal Canadian Mounted Police - 1975-10-27 / 2010-12-29
                          Proud Dad of #54266 - RCMP - 2007-02-12 to date
                          RCMP Veterans Association - Regina Division member
                          Mounted Police Professional Association of Canada - Associate (Retired) member
                          "Smile" - no!

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            See folks - That is exactly what I am talking about.

                            Flatbadge had an experience with what my Department considers to be a highly unprofessional officer.

                            In Arizona for the most part, Corrections Officers understand that the PDs, et. al won't neccecarily give professional courtesy, and do not EXPECT it like the individual Flatbadge ran into.

                            I am in total agreement with Flatbadge on this one. The CO should have been cited, first for being a jerk, and second because he had expired reg.

                            I also communicate with multiple agencies through written correspondence, and telephone calls weekly. I collect Police and Corrections patches. For every patch I have (now up to 37), I have a professional contact in that agency. I try to network with other agencies to promote inter-agency relations, and you never know when you might need a favor (PC).

                            Officers in my area know me by name, and we talk about how our day went, what's new in our areas of operations, how we can exchange info, etc. That is what I consider a healthy working relationship. PDs, Sheriff's Dept., Highway Patrol and Corrections all working together. That is why I went into Law Enforcement. To work with a TEAM comprised of many agencies and officers, working towards one goal - EVEN THOUGH THEIR JOBS DIFFER.

                            Thanks to all. You guys rock!

                            T.J.

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                            • #44
                              southern courtesy

                              In reference to the southern courtesy, the best way to bring about that you are law enforcement is to keep your hands on the wheel because we all should be carrying a weapon and notify the officer when he approaches. In NC by law you have to notify the officer if you have a concealed weapon hince your credentials should clear you. Never try to just badge your way out, we have to many ppl trying to impersonate LEO's to get out of tickets.
                              Don't even breath, you might suck a bullet out of the end of this barrel! --- Unknown

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                              • #45
                                Funny related event:

                                I was in Texas and I got pulled over. I showed my shield to the Texas State Trooper and he began busting my chops calling me a "New York City boy" and asking if I thought he was a dumb redneck etc... but in a funny way not meanly but close at times. He even called over another trooper to have a look at me. After they had their fun they told me they were just busting my chops and wanted to see if I could take it. Sounds bad but really it was more like a couple of older brothers busting their younger brothers chops. They never did write me and told me they would never have unless I lost it. Not a bad bunch of guys but after I drove away I did check the back of my car to see if I had a "kick me" sign on the back.

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