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LEO Videogames & Lt. Col. Grossman

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  • LEO Videogames & Lt. Col. Grossman

    I've been listening to some of Grossman's audio recordings and had a thought.
    A lot of agencies and academies today require an hour or so of training with projectors and a toy gun in simulators; larger agencies might even have the money to spend on submunitions and live fire training.

    Why not create a LEO videogame thats required for cadets to play/part of advanced officer training?

    Lt. Col. Grossman attributes a large amount of the increase in violence in the last 50 years to media; and more specifically video games. Says kids today can spend 10,000 hours "training" with video games; when Officers might only spend an hour at the shooting range every six months.

    Level the playing field by requiring Officers to spend a certain amount of time behind the controller of a videogame. Make it a scenario based video games built upon actual police encounters.

    To give you a personal example of how potent this training can be.
    My first high speed pursuit. Adrenaline pumping, attention concentrated.
    I start calling out the plate of the vehicle, "WHISKEY BRAVO HOTEL 553!!!"


    ..........
    ^That wasn't taught by an academy or a FTO; I learned it from playing video games like Call of Duty, Battlefield, Halo.... and listening to what the code words were in THOSE games, and it CAME OUT, when I was under pressure. My academy taught me the Adam-Boy-Charles-David code names.... Luckily the dispatcher knew what I said, and sucuessfully ran that plate.
    (Needless to say my fellow officers still make fun of it today. I'll never lose the nickname "Whisky Tango Foxtrot guy" )


    What do you guys think?
    16
    Yes! Require a game.
    12.50%
    2
    No! Don't require a game.
    43.75%
    7
    Not sure/Indifferent
    43.75%
    7

  • #2
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9q5p...eature=related

    Here's a link to the audio recordings I'm talking about by Grossman.

    Comment


    • #3
      The Army made an FPS about 10 years ago. It was pretty realistic and actually a decent online shooter. But I doubt it made anyone a better soldier.

      If a department wants to pay me to play video games, that is their choice. I just don't think it would be nearly as effective as you think. Besides, I already play my share of games.

      Comment


      • #4
        There are already programs that simulate aspects of LE work. From Interview simulators to Post Blast VR Training to evidence collection and analysis. The aspects of police work that are tactics based would not translate well into a "Game" media. Video games reinforce bad habits as well (no health packs in real life to run over after taking a couple rounds)

        Tactical/Street Survival training should be reinforced with PAIN. Shock Knifes, Sims, Paintball Etc.

        M-11
        “All men dream...... But not equally..
        Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it is vanity;
        but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men,
        for they act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible.....”

        TE Lawrence

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        • #5
          Rather than a video game training, I'd like to see more Active Shooter/Shoot House/Simmunition training available to officers at all level. Video game isn't as interactive as a person walk into a room not knowing what to expect is as real as it is going to get IMO.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by M1garand View Post
            Rather than a video game training, I'd like to see more Active Shooter/Shoot House/Simmunition training available to officers at all level. Video game isn't as interactive as a person walk into a room not knowing what to expect is as real as it is going to get IMO.
            +1

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            • #7
              I don't think it would be a good idea to rely SOLELY on games, but I agree wholeheartedly that video games are training young people to be more efficient killers. Playing one of the Rainbow Six series of games the other day taking fire from a bad guy who was hiding behind a partition made of wood... then I realize "Hey, I can shoot through wood!" and I dropped him through the cover. Things like that make a difference. How much I really can't say.

              Maybe they could make such a tactical game for cops with consequences that really hurt, like the shock knife or sim rounds. If you mess up and get killed your console gets bricked for a day.
              Be dangerous, and unpredictable... and make a lot of noise. - John Bush, Anthrax

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              • #8
                +1 to M1 The only 'game' I want to play is one where I use my own senses and abilities. Whereas in a game you may make the decision to lose a few health points by jumping off a roof or out a 2nd floor window, IRL I know I'd be saying some thing like are you outta your f(*@#&( mind!? Improper or poorly executed tactics should have a pain consequence attached to them. There is no cheat code on the street. JMHO

                Comment


                • #9
                  Force on force is the gold standard, and we don't do nearly enough of it in my area.

                  Simulators can be easier to run, with easily varied scenarios... but... a 2-way range is a completely different animal.

                  "An hour or so" doesn't cut it.
                  Last edited by Resq14; 04-22-2011, 11:34 AM.
                  All Gave Some - Some Gave All

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                  • #10
                    I like a lot of Grossman's stuff with the exception of the video game = violence stuff. I'm in the generation now that grew up with games and computers, and I still play them. I'm no better a shot because I play a video game. And I don't think I'm more prone to violence or desensitized because of them.

                    I think an LEO video game would be boring and lame. See the SWAT games.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I like a lot of Grossman's stuff with the exception of the video game = violence stuff. I'm in the generation now that grew up with games and computers, and I still play them. I'm no better a shot because I play a video game. And I don't think I'm more prone to violence or desensitized because of them.
                      I grew up on video games as well. Specifically Mario Bros, TMNT, etc... there is a world of difference between games from my youth and the games of today. I find it extremely unrealistic that kids associating enjoyment with games about indiscriminately shooting cops and civilians would have no impact at all. We might debate about the depth of the impact, but I am sure it has one. For whatever reason we have become cops. We have the self control and drive to apply violence only when necessary and for society's good. I'm not laying the blame for today's violent youth on video games, but I think they certainly can grease the skids for a kid to mentally go in the wrong direction. I think LtCol Grossman illustrates the point quite well about entertainment and the way it affects the brain in "On Killing".

                      Agreed that force on force is best, but sim rounds cost money. I see nothing wrong with supplementing training with some sort of electronic simulation. Maybe some people are reacting negatively to the term "game". We shouldn't let the best become the enemy of the good. If such a program were available I say why not utilize it.
                      Be dangerous, and unpredictable... and make a lot of noise. - John Bush, Anthrax

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by M1garand View Post
                        Rather than a video game training, I'd like to see more Active Shooter/Shoot House/Simmunition training available to officers at all level. Video game isn't as interactive as a person walk into a room not knowing what to expect is as real as it is going to get IMO.

                        what he said...
                        The posts on this forum by this poster are of his personal opinion, and his personal opinion alone

                        "Politicians are like diapers. They need to be changed often and for the same reason"

                        "We fight not for glory; nor for wealth; nor honor, but only and alone we fight for freedom, which no good man surrenders but with his life"

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                        • #13





                          This was my first police car...I still remember the first time I went 10-8. I responded to a T/C that ended up being a shooting. Caught a stolen vehicle and a DUI driver. I ended up working narcs and getting some street level stuff and eventually the biggest dealer in the city.

                          Wouldn't it be great...in Police Quest, after you get a DUI or Stolen..you have to fill out a 180. If you don't do it properly Records will kick it back to you and the Sergeant will write you a nasty email.
                          Last edited by Blizz; 04-23-2011, 12:58 AM.
                          Other officer: Oh that's right, I forgot, you're God's gift to police work.
                          Me: At least someone recognizes it.

                          Turns out basic police work isn't so hard, you just have to leave the station.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Nacogdoches PD has a simulator similar to the military version.
                            You have a laser firing glock and the scene plays out in front of you and reacts/changes with your decisions.
                            Chris

                            XBOX Live: Citizen GaKar


                            http://i36.tinypic.com/1zoxgtc.gif

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