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  • Bearcat357
    replied
    Originally posted by haolepopo View Post
    We don't have take home squad cars out here.
    Errr....you got subsidized car program out here........

    That seems like a take-home program to me......

    Leave a comment:


  • SinePari
    replied
    Originally posted by NJLAWMAN214 View Post
    SCDETECTIVE brings up would not appy as a good majority of police officers here DO NOT live where they work. In addition, the take home program is traditionally used in places where police compensation is not the greatest as a benefit. Here we are paid very well, and quite frankly I do not know ONE officer who would want a take home vehicle parked in their driveway. Different mentality up here.
    Some of our officers have a 100-mile commute with take-homes. Our compensation package is one of the best in the country, and every time they give the exam we have the highest number of applicants in New England. People may not mention it or brag about it but we are one of only a few departments in the northeast with take homes. The amount of applicants knowing full well we have take-homes has to account for something. Those without always say the same thing, "I don't want my neighbors..." blah blah blah. They already know who the cops are, there's just not a patrol car in the driveway.

    Leave a comment:


  • SCDetective
    replied
    Originally posted by haolepopo View Post
    We don't have take home squad cars out here. Judging from some of the above posts, it seems like most of your neighbors appreciate having a marked police vehicle in the area. I am curious about having the take homes and just had a couple of questions.

    Do you have a lot of problems with vandalism to the cars?

    Do people come knock on your door expecting police service?

    Are you compensated from the time that you leave your house or when you get to your station for line-up?

    We don't get the chance to work with other departments out here. I always think that it is very interesting learning how departments throughout the country operate in different ways so any answers will be appreciated.
    Answers:

    1) I can only recall two(2) incidents in the past 8 years, and one was my car...somebody threw a rock at my back window, but missed and only left a gouge in the trunk.

    2) Yes, I have had nieghbors come to me for help when I am off, but none have knocked on my door at an odd hour. I attended the community watch meetings and politely asked everyone to call my dispatch if possible, that way an on-duty officer can assist them. But they are always welcome to stop and say hi or ask a question when they see me out doing yard work or something. The neighborhood seems to really appreciate and respect this and is an integral part of our community policing strategy.

    3) commute time for us is not compensated, unless we make a stop or otherwise have to take official action. We'd be spending that time driving to work in our personal vehicle anyways if we didn't have take home cars.

    Leave a comment:


  • GVBD59
    replied
    I did a take home car proposal for my agency several years ago. The study conducted by the Tacoma Washington PD is highly regarded and very thorough.

    http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=...0S8ow2ZKikRQCw

    Leave a comment:


  • radioman
    replied
    I have a take home car...

    When I get in the car I call in service and I'm on the clock. I'm off the clock once I pull in the driveway at the end of my shift.

    My car has only been vandalized once in the nearly 10 years I've been a cop. And it washed off!

    Nobody knocks on my door wanting service, but the religious folks seem to frequent more often.......

    We run our cars over a 100,000 miles and they still look almost new when we turn them in.. .minus the crap paint job Ford does with the white paint flaking off some. But the suspension is starting to get worn out by then. We'll average anywhere from 100-250 miles per shift since we are a county agency. Paved roads, gravel roads, and minimal (none) maintenance roads are all patrolled. Still bring good money on trade in being take home cars rather than pool fleet.

    Leave a comment:


  • haolepopo
    replied
    We don't have take home squad cars out here. Judging from some of the above posts, it seems like most of your neighbors appreciate having a marked police vehicle in the area. I am curious about having the take homes and just had a couple of questions.

    Do you have a lot of problems with vandalism to the cars?

    Do people come knock on your door expecting police service?

    Are you compensated from the time that you leave your house or when you get to your station for line-up?

    We don't get the chance to work with other departments out here. I always think that it is very interesting learning how departments throughout the country operate in different ways so any answers will be appreciated.

    Leave a comment:


  • NJLAWMAN214
    replied
    SCDETECTIVE brings up some good points. I will add that a new patrol vehicle fully equipped cost 45 to 50k depending on the equipment ordered. Base price for a Charger or Crown Vic under the NJ state contract is around 20K with no options. When you add in the cage, light bar, wiring, radio, radar unit, camera system, push bumper, laptop, control unit, decals, extra lights, ems bag, AED, etc... it could get very expensive to do so. Around here, take home vehicles make no sense because in such a highly populated state with so many agencies and municipalities the cost would be prohibitive, and the added benefits that SCDETECTIVE brings up would not appy as a good majority of police officers here DO NOT live where they work. In addition, the take home program is traditionally used in places where police compensation is not the greatest as a benefit. Here we are paid very well, and quite frankly I do not know ONE officer who would want a take home vehicle parked in their driveway. Different mentality up here.

    Leave a comment:


  • SCDetective
    replied
    Don't have figures, but anecdotal info from my observations is as follows:

    My previous agency in 2000 to 2004- 32 patrol officers with 6 patrol "pool" cars that were hotboxed 24/7. Urban environment. Ford CV's. At about 50k miles, the suspension would rattle and creak, tranny squealed upon shift under load, seat was pretty worn and lucky if power seat control still worked, steering became sloppy, and plenty of dings, dents, scratches from unknown sources. By 75k miles they were ghetto-fied heaps of crap, borderline unsafe. Replaced the fleet every two years (3 per year) and we were lucky to get 80k out of them.

    Current agency - since 2004 - 55 officers with take home vehicles. Mix of CV's and Impalas. At 50k miles, cars still looked and drove like new. By 75k, they maybe had a scratch or two but still looked and drove nice. Interior started to show a little wear, but not too bad. 100k, a few needed tranny work and a strut here and there. Still drove ok and looked ok. 125k cars began to become ragged and worn out. By this time, most were 6-8 years old. We still have 01, 02, 03's on the road that are capable vehicles. My issued car is a 04 impala with only 90k on it. It has a few blemishes, but still drives fine.

    Everything else being equal, lets do the math:

    Assume: Police car cost is 30k fully outfitted. Pool car life expectancy: 75k
    cost to operate (not including repairs) = $.40/mile

    Take home car life expectancy: 125k
    Cost = $.24/mile

    safe to assume gas usage is roughly same (based on miles driven)
    safe to assume that repair costs would be equal or less for take homes based on assumption they are driven a little more carefully and more attention to maintenance.

    Intangibles: marked cars parked in neighborhoods, more cars available for special events/operations/OT, quicker and more effective emergency response (major incidents), better equipped and more efficient use of workspace, employee retention/morale, accountability.

    Overall, the reduced operating cost per unit probably doesn't offset the cost of the expanded fleet, but for a lot of agencies it is the intangibles that sway their decision.

    Leave a comment:


  • SCDetective
    replied
    Originally posted by ryker View Post
    Legally your brass should have a stern policy that prevents any work while off the clock. Major legal violation. Most companies don't even let workers stay on company property once they clock out.

    Never understood why we will lock up Johnny for stealing a pepsi but will allow such workplace labor laws to be broken. Even actively take part in breaking them. Beyond the fact that one simple ticket more than covers the 15min of work. And if it's something big then it's even better for the budget. Speeding and driving with suspended DL is near 1000.00.
    I think you'll find that a surprising number of labor laws either do not apply to LE agencies or the laws are different...

    One off the top of my head is the overtime exception...agencies do not have to compensate LEO's for OT until a certain threshold is met depending on the pay period length. That's federal law. My agency has a 28 day pay period and hours 1-171 are straight time. Time and a half starts at hour 172. For most private sector jobs the pay period is set by law at 7 days for purposes of computing OT, which is 1.5 times pay or comp time starting at hour 41.

    Not to mention, many states have a law that allows for "off-duty" police to instantly become "on-duty" the minute they take official action and are covered by workers comp and everything else the same as if it was their regular shift.

    BTW, here in SC, my agency would receive about $20 from that $1000 fine you mentioned, and that has to go towards not only my salary, but the clerk of courts salary, judges salary, the light bill, the water bill, cost to buy the ticket book from the state, and the salary of the records clerk that processes the ticket for us. We did a study a few years back and we determined that we lose money writing a ticket in most cases. We don't do it for the money.

    Leave a comment:


  • ryker
    replied
    Legally your brass should have a stern policy that prevents any work while off the clock. Major legal violation. Most companies don't even let workers stay on company property once they clock out.
    Last edited by ryker; 03-29-2012, 07:10 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • ryker
    replied
    The ability for brass to have a take home depends on the historical need to respond to calls from home or while enroute. If another larger agencies can and does cover, as needed, then your brass doesn't need a take home. In fact if you read IRS rules such use would be a taxable benifit. Not a marked unit and doesn't respond to calls.
    Last edited by ryker; 03-29-2012, 07:11 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Disturbed
    replied
    My department is about 1800-strong. Everyone has a takehome, as long as they live in county. Do a google search with the term "Indianapolis Plan" - it's what I've heard it called by other departments. I think we were the first city in the country to issue takehomes. We have use within our county, and one county out.

    Technically we are allowed to put in for OT/Comp if we take any action off duty, but unless it is something major, I never have.

    I'm pretty sure our department has done at least two studies on the economics of takehomes, so you may wish to contact them.

    Leave a comment:


  • 1911user
    replied
    Can't believe the #1 in your agency doesn't have a take home care. Is the county that strapped? Granted, gas is at its highest right now. I'm a lowly Detective and I've had a car for the last 20 yrs.

    Leave a comment:


  • SGT53
    replied
    We are a 15 Officer Department. The Chief has a take home as well as both our Detectives. Our Detectives soon will lose their take home cars. They are not called out enough to justify having the cars at home. When the Chief is called, it is better for him to have a car for response. SGT's are next in command in my Department, so when the Chief is on leave, he will assign a SGT as "in Command" and provide his vehicle if need be.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sarge048
    replied
    Also a small dept. Here the sheriff, undersheriff, and the 3 sgts have take home cars. We cover approx 770sq miles and if command ofc is needed one of us is getting called and expected to respond. Its a good benefit.

    Me and another sgt both live in the same small town so they have more police presence then they have ever had. Some like it, some dont. The ones that dont keep us with take home cars if you know what I mean.

    Leave a comment:

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