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Why I quit the FOP

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  • Why I quit the FOP

    Why I quit the FOP.

    I joined the FOP because in the northeast the FOP is primarily a fraternal organization. Most police departments there use a PBA as their union and all are closed shops so you have no choice and no vote to opt out of a union altogether or to opt for FOP representation. Therefore the FOP's role in that region is primarily a fraternal organization, where law enforcement officers get together for friendship and brotherhood and recreation.

    As such I felt that being a member of the FOP was not a political issue but merely a leisure activity or club. I did not bother to really look in to it. I was under the impression that the FOP was mostly a fraternal organization that sometimes filled a minor role as a labor organization for those officers that wanted or needed it in small police departments that wanted such a thing.

    When I moved south I began to realize that the FOP is not mostly a fraternal organization that does some union things for small police departments that are not big enough to have a union. The FOP is a national left wing political union organization that does some small amount of fraternal things.

    I am a Republican and right of center politically. The more I looked in to it I found that the FOP is responsible for pushing a largely left wing ideology. They always support gun bans and so called "assault weapons" bans; even though a majority of their members own such firearms and are against such measures. Issue after issue I started to find that the FOP was polar opposite to everything I, and many members, believed in.

    Then I started to look at the dues money that I paid and where that went. Like many members, I thought that 90% of my dues stayed in my local lodge to pay for the building, local charities, meetings, parties, etc... I found out that that was not the case. A lot of your dues money goes to the state and national lodges. And what do they do with that money? Administrative fees for the "staff" but more importantly than that ... it goes to support political candidates and issues that the FOP hierarchy deems beneficial. Again these are issues and candidates that I, as a Republican, do not agree with and I am appalled to have my money going to support these people and those issues.

    If you are a Democrat and left of center and you support unions and left wing candidates and issues then by all means the FOP is for you.

    But if you are a Republican or conservative and you are mostly against unions and the left wing issues and candidates that represent them, then you have to ask yourself if you are selling out your principles by staying a member of the FOP. You have to ask yourself if you want your money and implied support going to these things.

    After 23 years of FOP membership I finally had to make some hard choices. I loved my lodge and the guys in it, and this is not about the rank and file members. This is about the leadership and administration of the FOP and the left turn the organization has taken. I had to quit to maintain my integrity and stand by my principles. Either I believe this stuff or I do not. You just can't believe it when it is convenient for you.

    added:
    Let me add that I would love to see a truly fraternal alternative to the FOP. If anyone is willing to help start something like this I am willing to help. Something that is non-political and does not endorse candidates. Just a "club" for LEO's if you will. A place where a police officer does not have to check his political views or values at the door before submitting his dues. A place where 100% of your dues stays right in your local lodge and community.
    Politicians are welcome to come speak but members are encouraged to hear all of the them (Democrat & Republican) and then make up their own minds. The lodge itself will endorse no one.
    Last edited by Sentinel; 03-21-2011, 11:29 AM. Reason: added

  • #2
    I believe that the FOP, like most police unions, supports Democrats because they tend to give better pay and benefits to cops. Unfortunately, they give better pay and benefits to everyone, and support liberal causes of all sorts.
    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
    Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

    Comment


    • #3
      Agreed. It took me a long time to realize that. That is the point of my post. Being somewhat "right wing" I guess you would put it, I finally came ot the point where I realized that I was selling my soul to stay a member. I hated giving it up but I just could no longer stomach being a member.

      The PBA I had no choice but to belong as the NYPD is a closed shop. No freedom to choose there. If you want to be a cop you either pay up and join or hit the road. Real tolerance there.
      But the FOP I did not have to belong to. That was a choice. And since they made their choice to turn left I had to make my choice to quit and no longer support them. I would hope that other republicans follow and leave.

      I sure would love to see some kind of non-partisan truly fraternal organization(s) spring up to take their place. Something like the Orange County Shields in NY. All your money stays 100% in the local lodge/county to fund meetings and events. Political candidates are permitted to speak to the membership at monthly meetings but the organization itself does not endorse anyone. You make up your own mind. No labor or union stuff either.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Sentinel View Post
        If you are a Democrat and left of center and you support unions and left wing candidates and issues then by all means the FOP is for you.

        But if you are a Republican or conservative and you are mostly against unions and the left wing issues and candidates that represent them, then you have to ask yourself if you are selling out your principles by staying a member of the FOP. You have to ask yourself if you want your money and implied support going to these things.
        So there you are living large in Florida on your NYPD pension, with full medical and dental benefits, talking about how you are against unions and organizations that are pro union?

        Put your money where your mouth is and tell the pension bureau you no longer want the money and benefits that a UNION negotiated for you to retire with. Tell them where they can stick that variable supplement the PBA got for you. Insist that you want to go back to work until you're age 65 and if you retired before that age, you will reimburse them for the money you took due to an evil union negotiating that for you. Because if you are not willing to do that, then you have no right to pick on a union or organization that supports them.
        “Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on.” - Robert F. Kennedy.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by NYCDep View Post
          So there you are living large in Florida on your NYPD pension, with full medical and dental benefits, talking about how you are against unions and organizations that are pro union?

          Put your money where your mouth is and tell the pension bureau you no longer want the money and benefits that a UNION negotiated for you to retire with. Tell them where they can stick that variable supplement the PBA got for you. Insist that you want to go back to work until you're age 65 and if you retired before that age, you will reimburse them for the money you took due to an evil union negotiating that for you. Because if you are not willing to do that, then you have no right to pick on a union or organization that supports them.

          +1
          Being a good street cop is like coming to work in a wet suit and peeing in your pants. It's a nice warm feeling, but you're the only one who knows anything has happened.

          Comment


          • #6
            On a lighter note, the PBA or FOP shouldn't be a boys club, but rather to assist officers with labor protection and contract negotiation. Sure we eat and have a beer or (2) at the meetings, but only after the business is discussed. We also do numerous charitable acts throughout the year. A place to hang out and B.S. it's not.
            Being a good street cop is like coming to work in a wet suit and peeing in your pants. It's a nice warm feeling, but you're the only one who knows anything has happened.

            Comment


            • #7
              I think the complaint is that the FOP supports liberals and liberal causes, resulting in undesirable social consequences. not that it was effective in negotiating pay and benefits.
              Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
              Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

              Comment


              • #8
                I agree 100%
                Originally posted by NYCDep View Post
                So there you are living large in Florida on your NYPD pension, with full medical and dental benefits, talking about how you are against unions and organizations that are pro union?

                Put your money where your mouth is and tell the pension bureau you no longer want the money and benefits that a UNION negotiated for you to retire with. Tell them where they can stick that variable supplement the PBA got for you. Insist that you want to go back to work until you're age 65 and if you retired before that age, you will reimburse them for the money you took due to an evil union negotiating that for you. Because if you are not willing to do that, then you have no right to pick on a union or organization that supports them.
                "Lay there and bleed awhile before you feel some real pain."

                "Have a cup of coffee, a pall mall, and relax!"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by NYCDep View Post
                  So there you are living large in Florida on your NYPD pension, with full medical and dental benefits, talking about how you are against unions and organizations that are pro union?

                  Put your money where your mouth is and tell the pension bureau you no longer want the money and benefits that a UNION negotiated for you to retire with. Tell them where they can stick that variable supplement the PBA got for you. Insist that you want to go back to work until you're age 65 and if you retired before that age, you will reimburse them for the money you took due to an evil union negotiating that for you. Because if you are not willing to do that, then you have no right to pick on a union or organization that supports them.
                  + 1

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by NYCDep View Post
                    So there you are living large in Florida on your NYPD pension, with full medical and dental benefits, talking about how you are against unions and organizations that are pro union?

                    Put your money where your mouth is and tell the pension bureau you no longer want the money and benefits that a UNION negotiated for you to retire with. Tell them where they can stick that variable supplement the PBA got for you. Insist that you want to go back to work until you're age 65 and if you retired before that age, you will reimburse them for the money you took due to an evil union negotiating that for you. Because if you are not willing to do that, then you have no right to pick on a union or organization that supports them.
                    Amen.
                    All Gave Some - Some Gave All

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      NYCDep,
                      I had no choice but to belong to a union. In NY it is a closed shop. Had I had the choice I would not have been in the union and I would have been better off for it.
                      That said, let's keep this topic on topic. Nice try to derail the topic but I am not going to let it happen. The point of this topic is simply this: The FOP and PBA are unions/labor organizations as another poster has said. If you are a Democrat/Liberal/Socialist and believe in such things and you think that that is a good course for our country to be on then I don't expect you to quit the FOP/PBA. I would imagine that you love it and think it is great.

                      My point is that if you are a Republican/Conservative/Tea Party type person, as I am and I know many of my brother officers are, and you are a member of those organizations because you think it is just about a beer and a sandwich at the monthly meeting, then you are deluded. You are fooling yourself and you should rethink your membership in those organizations because it goes against everything you believe in.

                      Now if you would like to start another thread about unions and why they suck and why you should not want one and you should fight against them I would love to engage you on that. I'll also tell you if I have a pension or not and what I did and did not do to fight the union I used to belong to, how they hurt me (and you) and how much better off you would be if you did not have them. But that is a topic for another conversation.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I highly disagree with the statement that the FOP doesn't serve as a union in the northeast. The last time that I checked Pennsylvania was a notheastern state. The FOP was founded by the officers of the Pittsburgh PD (Lodge # 1) primarily to serve as a union. But since at the time of its founding union activity for police officers was unpopular it was structured as a fraternal organization. In PA the FOP represents all of the large and most of the smaller PDs in the state. In some areas of the country where there are other unions that represent the police (New York and New Jersey for example) or where union activity for public employees is illegal or unwanted the FOP serves as only a fratermal organization. That doesn't mean that the FOP in those areas don't represent their members by lobbying state and federal legislatures on laws that affect the police. The FOP was largely responsible for the passage of the National Police Officers' Bill of Rights, the Law Enforcement Officers' Safety Act and the establishment of the National Law Enforcement Officers' Memorial. The FOP supports candidates on their stands on issues that affect police officers and the issues that the FOP supports are related to strengthening law enforcement and public employees barganing rights. I don't recall the national lodge supporting any weapons bans. If your objection to The FOP is that it is a union and you didn't know that when you joined then shame on you for not looking and any of their literature. Since the founding of the Pittsburgh Lodge in 1919 they have never claimed to be anything else.
                        When Society makes war on its police, it better be prepared to make friends of its criminals.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          SO....you are saying that since I am/may/might lean toward the conservative end of the political spectrum, and I am an FOP member, I should quit based solely on thier political movements. Otherwise I am ignorant or delusional or both? Here is a thought. Politics are not the end all be all of my life. What you are alluding is the same idea that people who are "Christian" should also be "republican" or "conservative". After all....how can a Democrat love Jesus? (sarcasm). If I wanted to keep all things that I didnt agree with politically out of my life, i would have to be a hermit. Alot of large corporations support things that I dont necessarily agree with politically, socially, or morally (i.e. Target, Disney, Tyson, etc.) My point is my politics dont define my life, or my career. I am and will continue to be a FOP member simply because, If the SHTF, I cant on my salary, afford a decent laywer for an extended period of time. The legal plan they offer is reason enough for me. Unless there another viable and just as able option is/or becomes available, that is.

                          All that being said.....dont base your life on being red or blue.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Sentinel View Post
                            NYCDep,
                            I had no choice but to belong to a union. In NY it is a closed shop. Had I had the choice I would not have been in the union and I would have been better off for it.
                            That said, let's keep this topic on topic. Nice try to derail the topic but I am not going to let it happen. The point of this topic is simply this: The FOP and PBA are unions/labor organizations as another poster has said. If you are a Democrat/Liberal/Socialist and believe in such things and you think that that is a good course for our country to be on then I don't expect you to quit the FOP/PBA. I would imagine that you love it and think it is great.

                            My point is that if you are a Republican/Conservative/Tea Party type person, as I am and I know many of my brother officers are, and you are a member of those organizations because you think it is just about a beer and a sandwich at the monthly meeting, then you are deluded. You are fooling yourself and you should rethink your membership in those organizations because it goes against everything you believe in.

                            Now if you would like to start another thread about unions and why they suck and why you should not want one and you should fight against them I would love to engage you on that. I'll also tell you if I have a pension or not and what I did and did not do to fight the union I used to belong to, how they hurt me (and you) and how much better off you would be if you did not have them. But that is a topic for another conversation.
                            What a load of crap. You started the thread so why don't you address those valid points that were made? Are you collecting a pension and enjoying the benefits your union got for you? Do you carry now as a retired guy? Because who do you think doubt for that legislation?
                            For the cops out there: You are an adult. If you want to write someone, write them. If you don't want to write someone, then don't write them.

                            "Jeff, you are the best cop on this board"-Anonymous Post

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              This thread makes me want to start another thread titled "I used to be a republican"

                              The republican party, with the fervent support of the moron tea party (who's views I used to respect) is currently raping police, fire, and teachers nationwide, making intentional efforts to bankrupt our pension systems and force massive cuts out of my paycheck using state law to do so.

                              So with all due respect, go **** yourself sideways, because that's what the right wing is doing to all of us who are still on the job.
                              Seriously, the only reason I wanted to be a cop was so I could post anywhere on this forum.

                              Comment

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