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  • #31
    ...typical bull$***.
    I make my living on Irish welfare.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Shaidon View Post
      Plus....we're Cops. We are generally more inclined to believe and back up other Officers regardless of how little or how much knowledge of an incident we have. That's the nature of the Brotherhood....
      Agreed, we're supposed to be a brotherhood.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by PtlCop View Post
        I like how anytime somebody asks us to judge a cops actions by a new story, we refuse to do it "without all the facts."

        But when it comes to a cop being disciplined, we're more than happy to judge it unfair, even without "all the facts."

        I choose to believe that there is information that we don't have that would justify or explain the 30 day suspension.
        I'm glad you're not my supervisor.

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        • #34
          The only thing I can think of is the whole use of force part being improperly documneted / down played, maybe left out of the report entirely... Barring that I can't see the issue. The suspect layed out a text book justification for a hands/feet/elbows on use of force.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by beachcop05 View Post
            I'm glad you're not my supervisor.
            Why? Because I point out a hypocrisy in our thinking? It's never made sense to me on this forum why we (notice i'm saying we, because i've done it too) refuse to judge another cops actions as wrong because we don't have all the facts. But, we're willing to judge another cops actions as just or righteous, even when we don't have all the facts.

            That being said, a 30 day suspension for this incident, seems excessive going ONLY on the story provided. The story that was written with the goal of creating a sensation and selling newspapers. An honest, deductive reasoning cop, would realize that there might be things that justify (i.e. multiple incidents between this suspect and this officer where less than professional or reasonable actions were taken), or explain (idiot administration, the suspect is a relative of an important political person, etc). "Justify," and "explain" are two different things here. I'm not saying what the guy did was wrong, but I simply refuse to believe that he was suspended 30 days for THIS incident. There has to be a back story to it, that we don't have, and won't have. So I reserve judgement on the incident because I don't have all those facts. How is that a bad thing?

            I think you, as others did, read my post as thinking that the suspension was justified. That's not the case, I simply don't know, and won't speculate.
            Originally posted by K40
            To me, open carry is the equivalent of the couple making out and groping each other at the food court in the mall. Yeah, they are probably legal, as long as they don't start getting undressed. But they are still social retards.
            ‎"You go for a man hard enough and fast enough, he don't have time to think about how many's with him; he thinks about himself, and how he might get clear of that wrath that's about to set down on him." - Rooster Cogburn

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Shaidon View Post
              Anytime a story is given by the media, I don't judge it to have "all the facts" because it typically does not. The media loves to spin stories and add/edit things to make papers sell. That's their job...to sell papers.

              I choose to believe that the whole story isn't presented here.....nor will it be comprehensively told except to IA and the review boards that this Officer has to go through. I will say though...that having seen similar things happen to classmates of mine, I wholeheartedly believe that Deptarments country-wide are giving in to "trial by public" and appeasing the media/random citizens. Things that used to be a written are now becoming days off....and a TON of uses of force are getting discipline handed down even if it was a justified UOF. I think the different agencies around the country are becoming more and more afraid of ANY liability and therefore discipline Officers to head off certain repercussions i.e. lawsuits etc.

              If you aren't experiencing the same where you work, I have to say you are lucky beyond belief and I'm a little jealous. Nowadays everything is becoming more and more PC where I work, and if you lay a hand on somebody, even if it is righteous, you are sweating bullets wondering if you are going to get days anyway.

              Plus....we're Cops. We are generally more inclined to believe and back up other Officers regardless of how little or how much knowledge of an incident we have. That's the nature of the Brotherhood....
              In the past year, one officer in my general area was allegedly drunk on duty (.19) and ran over three motorcyclists, killing one. A sheriff's deputy was allegedly drunk on duty and was involved in a crash. Another officer was allegedly impaired by OxyContin on duty and involved in a crash. One officer was fired from his agency for "shaking somebody's hand too long" and making a rich housewife uncomfortable by doing so (there are some other circumstances too, but that's the straw that broke the camel's back). Numerous officers were disciplined for their role in arresting a violent, resisting 15 year old who happened to get a few bruises after battering law enforcement. At least 5 off duty officers have been arrested for drunk driving, a majority of whom lost their jobs. 1 officer was arrested for disorderly conduct, resisting and battery on law enforcement while drunk at a concert venue. One officer was involved in a confrontation outside a restaurant where he was confronted by a mob of people for leaving his child in the car for 5 minutes.

              I'm pretty well aware of the trial by media, or the court of public opinion, that we're subjected to.

              I realize that we're not infallible, however, and that sometimes we're in the wrong, and that sometimes we're in the right, but hung out to dry by our administration. Like I explained to beachcop05, i'm not saying the suspension was justified or not, i'm saying that I do not have the information to make a determination. The back story is important, and we don't, and won't, get that.

              I'm the first one to back an officer up when I know that he's done nothing wrong, and everything that he's done in a UOF is reasonable and justifiable. I'm also NOT willing to back up another officer when he steps outside the bounds of his job, or when he's being unreasonable with his UOF. I understand the nature of the brotherhood and I am, like you, more inclined to side with an officer until I have all the facts. That being said, everyone of us knows that there's SOMETHING going on with this case that would justify, or explain, why a 30 day suspension was handed down.
              Originally posted by K40
              To me, open carry is the equivalent of the couple making out and groping each other at the food court in the mall. Yeah, they are probably legal, as long as they don't start getting undressed. But they are still social retards.
              ‎"You go for a man hard enough and fast enough, he don't have time to think about how many's with him; he thinks about himself, and how he might get clear of that wrath that's about to set down on him." - Rooster Cogburn

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              • #37
                unbelieveable. i guess they didn't have much of an internal investigation it seems oneonta had him guilty and now he has to prove himself innocent. we have less rights then these skells

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by penguin cop View Post
                  unbelieveable. i guess they didn't have much of an internal investigation it seems oneonta had him guilty and now he has to prove himself innocent. we have less rights then these skells
                  How do you know how much of an internal investigation they conducted? Share your info with us.
                  Retired

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                  • #39
                    Alot more cops are definatly getting hurt due to the fact that they are scared of getting jammed up, what a joke.
                    Originally posted by shaidon View Post
                    unfortunately this is happening more and more nowadays. Officer uses force, scumbag complains, and even though the force was justified, in accordance with policy as well as training, the brass hangs the officer(s) out to dry. It's starting to get pretty damn frustrating....they want us to do our jobs without using force. But sometimes force is required to do our jobs, and most uof's don't look pretty....that's reality. I guess things are just swinging way left atm with alot of cities. Hopefully that changes and officers don't get hurt because they hesitate to use force when they need to. I know i'm worried about our younger guys in this regard....they hesitate cause they don't want days/discipline and get hurt. Stay safe out there.

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                    • #40
                      [QUOTE=penguin cop;2686890]Alot more cops are definatly getting hurt due to the fact that they are scared of getting Jammed up, what a joke SOCIETY HAS BECOME. THE AVERAGE CITIZEN HAS NO IDEA WHAT IT IS LIKE TO BE INVOLVED WITH A BAD DOMESTIC, SHOOTING, OR AN EDP ON DUST. THEY THINK WHEN WE TELL SOMEONE TO PUT THEIR HANDS BEHIND THEIR BACKS THAT THEY LISTEN LOL.

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                      • #41
                        How do you know how much of an internal investigation they conducted? Share your info with us. I DON'T KNOW I AM JUST ASSUMING THAT. IT SEEMS LIKE THEY ARE GOING ON THE STORY PROVIDED BY THE SKELL. IT JUST SEEMS ABSURED 30 DAYS NO PAY THE SKELL DIDNT EVEN GET A TUNE UP IN WHICH HE HAD TO GO TO THE HOSPITAL. MAYBE IT WAS A POORLY WRITTEN REPORT?

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                        • #42
                          This story reeks of bs. The story is full of red flags which lead me to believe this guy is full of crap and it is exceedingly typical of a cry often made by criminals who don't like being held accountable.

                          Criminals often times will tell another cop, who was not part of the original contact, that he is a real nice cop but his co-worker is a jerk. They think it makes them look pro police. They think it makes their story credible. That in itself is one very big red flag.
                          Prov 17:17 A friend loveth at all times, and a brother is born for adversity.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by pujolsfan146 View Post
                            This story reeks of bs. The story is full of red flags which lead me to believe this guy is full of crap and it is exceedingly typical of a cry often made by criminals who don't like being held accountable.

                            Criminals often times will tell another cop, who was not part of the original contact, that he is a real nice cop but his co-worker is a jerk. They think it makes them look pro police. They think it makes their story credible. That in itself is one very big red flag.
                            Welcome back.....................
                            Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

                            My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

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                            • #44
                              I have no idea what city this occurred, but it might be called "Breenville" soon. Unless there's a lot more to this story, this officer will be able to retire a wealthy person very soon. I get sick and tired of hearing about frivolous lawsuits, but I hope this officer gets a good lawyer and embarrasses his political chief.
                              Work harder! Millions on welfare depend on you...

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