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  • Ballistic first Aid

    My department has recently conducted training and part of it was officer rescue. Linked to this I asked why arent we trained in any kind of Ballistic first aid, we get basic red cross first aid but then nothing else.
    The suggestion was in the event of clearing a building in which a suspect may be, to call for EMS on standby in the event of medical assistance being needed...which is good, but I'm more worried about the worst case scenario and that 5 minutes if not more until medical aid is with you.

    So having read some peoples excellent postings about war bags I did a bit of research on Quickclot which seems to be commonly carried....and to be honest the results were'nt good. Many of the subjects in Iraq who had Quickclot used on them bled out as the exothermic reaction which Quickclot depends on didnt work in time, causing the blood to spray the material everywhere. Now I havent served in Iraq or Afghanistan, and thanks to those who have, so my results are not from firsthand experience.

    My question is if your dept gives you ballistic first aid training what does it consist of, or if they issue medical kits what are they?

    Any ideas?
    "Well, I never had an invisible friend when I was young, but I'm sure that if I did, it would be Constable Smiley."

  • #2
    No ballistic first aide training, no medical kits supplied, I carry a pouch of QuickClot in my vest.

    Comment


    • #3
      QuickClot makes a sponge that may solve the 'spewing' problem.
      Originally posted by Ceridwen
      Just one would be stingy of me, I'd have to get two. For the children.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by dontknowwhy View Post
        QuickClot makes a sponge that may solve the 'spewing' problem.
        I have a feeling the spewing was done without proper pressure.
        Your supposed to apply the Quick Clot, apply a small bandage, and apply copious amounts of pressure until the bleeding stops. If you don't apply pressure, I can see how the Quick Clot would be shot out.

        Comment


        • #5
          You need to get the scoop on the current Tactical Combat Casualty Care (TCCC) guidelines and use the portions that would apply to Care Under Fire and Tactical Field Care in law enforcement situations. Training on this is key, preferably by an instructor who is experienced with TCCC/combat medic experience.

          http://www.health.mil/Education_And_Training/TCCC.aspx

          The leading causes of preventable deaths in tactical/combat situations:
          - Extremity hemorrhage
          - Tension Pneumothoraces
          - Airway Obstructions

          I carry a minimal kit on my duty belt containing:
          - CAT tourniquet
          - Quikclot COMBAT GAUZE (this is the only type of Quikclot worth purchasing for penetrating trauma)
          - compact pressure dressing
          - HALO chest seals
          - Nasal airway
          This is carried in a Maxpedition M-2 as seen below.







          Last edited by Resq14; 03-08-2011, 09:02 AM.
          All Gave Some - Some Gave All

          Comment


          • #6
            I speak TCCC. PM Me.

            M-11
            “All men dream...... But not equally..
            Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it is vanity;
            but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men,
            for they act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible.....”

            TE Lawrence

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Resq14 View Post
              I carry a minimal kit on my duty belt containing:
              - CAT tourniquet
              - Quikclot COMBAT GAUZE (this is the only type of Quikclot worth purchasing for penetrating trauma)
              - compact pressure dressing
              - HALO chest seals
              - Nasal airway
              This is carried in a Maxpedition M-2 as seen below.
              I'm a recently retired combat medic and pretty much carry the same kit. I'm EMS certified in Wisconsin so I also carry a decompression needle in my kit.
              Originally posted by kontemplerande
              Without Germany, you would not have won World War 2.

              Comment


              • #8
                http://www.tactical-ems.com/index.asp
                Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

                My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

                Comment


                • #9
                  Eastside,

                  If you are going to make statements about medical products, please post your references. Don't rely on google search for TTP's.
                  All you need is a TCCC class or a good FR course taught by a QUALIFIED instructor.
                  Free Deke O'Mally!!!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Good stuff.

                    I think that in any training that is done, emphasis needs to be placed on how this is integrated into reality: staying in the fight and eliminating threats if you still can, getting to cover, self-aid, buddy-aid, etc... not just the monkey skills of "this is how you put on a tourniquet" etc.

                    I'm still the only one in my area that carries any med gear on my belt, but I know there's many more of us out there that do and it seems to be growing, which is a good thing. I realize agencies will have varying levels of support for such things, which sucks.
                    All Gave Some - Some Gave All

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      To address a few points

                      1) Firstly thanks to all for their replies, its much appreciated and its made me decide to submit a business plan to my agency regarding this matter.

                      2) To District B13 I fully appreciate your post, and yes indeed I in no way intended to make rash points about a product. It appears indeed that Quikclot is still well used.

                      So taken from http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.p...html#msg372150 (Edited to show relevant point)
                      UNCLASSIFIED//
                      REFERENCES:
                      A. CDR USSOCOM LTR OF 9 MARCH 05
                      B. USSOCOM MSG 222016 MARCH 2005
                      C. PREHOSPITAL TRAUMA LIFE SUPPORT (PHTLS) MANUAL (SIXTH EDITION)
                      D. NOMI LTR 6440 SER 055/001 OF 21 NOV 2005
                      E. USSOCOM MSG 171252Z JAN 03
                      F. CDR USSOCOM LTR DTD 9 DEC 2005

                      8. THE PREVIOUS USSOCOM MSG PROHIBITING THE USE OF
                      QUIKCLOT (REF E) IS CANCELLED. SINCE NEITHER HEMCON OR
                      QUIKCLOT HAS BEEN FOUND TO BE CLEARLY SUPERIOR IN
                      CONTROLLING EXTERNAL HEMORRHAGE, ALL USSOCOM
                      COMBATANTS WILL CARRY BOTH HEMCON AND QUIKCLOT. IAW
                      WITH THE UPDATED TCCC GUIDELINES IN REF (C+D),
                      HEMCOM WILL BE USED FIRST TO CONTROL LIFE-THREATENING
                      EXTERNAL HEMORRHAGE. QUIKCLOT WILL BE USED AS THE
                      BACKUP IN THE EVENT THAT HEMCON FAILS TO ADEQUATELY
                      CONTROL HEMORRHAGE
                      Again this is from the wonderful world of the internet, those downrange will have better and more up to date information, the reference I mentioned about its failure came from this site also, but I digress.

                      Yes of course though in no way would I rely on the internet apart from a handy source of Latvian porn from 1973 at 0221am (we all have needs) but my purpose here is to research first aid, and already today theres been some great posts from people.

                      It appears in the US alone already this year its been open season on Law enforcement, I dont want ever to be the guy working that day and try and push my partners jacket onto their gunshot wound while screaming for EMS. I've been to too many stabbings and seen life gush away, I dont want it to the one on the ground wishing I had a $50 kit in my cargo pocket which could give me a fighting chance.

                      Has anyone actually attended a downed officer course?

                      M-11 PM on way
                      "Well, I never had an invisible friend when I was young, but I'm sure that if I did, it would be Constable Smiley."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Again to B13, I am at fault, the post I made didnt include where Quikclot failed was on subjects with femoral injuries, i'm trying to find where I read this, but unfortunately cant.
                        "Well, I never had an invisible friend when I was young, but I'm sure that if I did, it would be Constable Smiley."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Eastside, that is the OLD Quikclot zeolite granules you are getting info on. That memo is 5-6 years old... Quikclot granules were discontinued in 2008.

                          Quikclot Combat Gauze, which uses kaolin as the active ingredient, is recommended by TCCC. It's actually the only hemostatic agent currently recommended.
                          http://www.z-medica.com/healthcare/P...bat-Gauze.aspx

                          Last edited by Resq14; 03-08-2011, 02:09 PM.
                          All Gave Some - Some Gave All

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by SRT936 View Post
                            I'm a recently retired combat medic and pretty much carry the same kit. I'm EMS certified in Wisconsin so I also carry a decompression needle in my kit.
                            Just for the benefit of others, here's my kit:

                            Israeli Battle Dressing
                            Quikclot
                            CAT Tourniquet
                            NPA, 28F (Nasopharyngeal Airway)
                            Ashermann Chest Seal
                            ARS Needle Decomp Kit

                            I've got a nice little nylon kit that keeps it organized and it fits nicely in my cargo pocket on my pants.
                            Originally posted by kontemplerande
                            Without Germany, you would not have won World War 2.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I figured that memo was old as the hills and completely superseded. Now to begin typing....
                              "Well, I never had an invisible friend when I was young, but I'm sure that if I did, it would be Constable Smiley."

                              Comment

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