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Obama: No guns for US Agents in Mexico

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  • PtlCop
    replied
    Originally posted by Dep D View Post

    You and I both know as civilized people in civilized nations that it is their problem as well as ours. Since they can't stop drugs, people and God knows what else from coming over the border, they need to make exceptions to the rules.
    As stated above, they have no motivation to stop the drug trade, they're making money off it. They really could care less if people leave Mexico to come work here, or if there are drugs leaving their country and coming into ours. If they cared, they'd get serious about it. They'd stop their agents at the border from protecting the drug runners and people smugglers.

    They won't because that'll stop money from flowing into their economy. Ergo, the onus is on us to secure the border the best way that we can, and fight the drug war the best way that we can. If they won't let us arm our agents in their country, pull them out and fight it on another front.

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  • Dep D
    replied
    Originally posted by PtlCop View Post
    Simply put, no they don't. Mexico is under no obligation to 1) stop the flow of drugs from their borders into the United States. If the United States doesn't like it, the onus is on US to stop it. If Mexico wants to kick all American agents out of Mexico and tell us to fight the drug war from our own side of the border, they're allowed to do so.
    I agree with this, but this is a legal distinction. Countries and person's interact as with an ethical and moral code. Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's moral or ethical.2)

    [QUOTE=Mexico is under no obligation to allow the arming of law enforcement officers of the United States. Your comparison to Obama's security detail is apples to oranges. The Secret Service are a protection force for a head of state, the most high profile and highly targeted head of state in the world. ICE agents are targets, but to equate them with the POTUS is absurd.[/QUOTE]

    To equate an ICE Agent with other person's except for other person's who put their lives on the line is absurd. I concede your point.

    [QUOTE=If Mexico won't let us arm our agents there, then our government needs to pull them out and tell the Mexicans to deal with their own problems. We should then implement as many embargos on trade and economic sanctions as we can.[/QUOTE]

    As you succinctly stated above, it's not Mexico's problem to stop the drugs from coming over the problem, it's ours...


    You and I both know as civilized people in civilized nations that it is their problem as well as ours. Since they can't stop drugs, people and God knows what else from coming over the border, they need to make exceptions to the rules.
    Last edited by Dep D; 03-04-2011, 09:54 PM.

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  • PtlCop
    replied
    Originally posted by DAL View Post
    I would not assume that Mexico cares about the flow of drugs into the U.S. The money flows into the Mexican economy.
    Yup. They have no incentive as a country to do anything more than make a halfway decent showing of trying to eradicate the drug trade.

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  • DAL
    replied
    I would not assume that Mexico cares about the flow of drugs into the U.S. The money flows into the Mexican economy.

    Leave a comment:


  • PtlCop
    replied
    Originally posted by Dep D View Post

    The drugs are coming from Mexico, and it is their obligation to make exceptions for our LEO’s just as they make exceptions for our Secret Service when Obama goes down there.
    Simply put, no they don't. Mexico is under no obligation to 1) stop the flow of drugs from their borders into the United States. If the United States doesn't like it, the onus is on US to stop it. If Mexico wants to kick all American agents out of Mexico and tell us to fight the drug war from our own side of the border, they're allowed to do so.

    2) Mexico is under no obligation to allow the arming of law enforcement officers of the United States. Your comparison to Obama's security detail is apples to oranges. The Secret Service are a protection force for a head of state, the most high profile and highly targeted head of state in the world. ICE agents are targets, but to equate them with the POTUS is absurd.


    If Mexico won't let us arm our agents there, then our government needs to pull them out and tell the Mexicans to deal with their own problems. We should then implement as many embargos on trade and economic sanctions as we can.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dep D
    replied
    I understand Mexico has its own laws and we need to abide by them. I also understand that Obama could tell Calderon if he wants our help in the drug fight than our agents need to be armed. PERIOD.

    Money walks and bullsh*t talks.

    The drugs are coming from Mexico, and it is their obligation to make exceptions for our LEO’s just as they make exceptions for our Secret Service when Obama goes down there.

    No person is more important than any other. I have attached an article from Fox News today, you may find interesting.

    I have not been able to substantiate this from any other place yet;

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/03/03...ags-609544203/

    Can you imagine this!!!

    Can you imagine an American telling his/her people they must do this?

    “Sir I know you’re pointing that deadly weapon at me, and you have refused to drop it, so I am going to shoot bean bags at you to TRY and get you to comply with my direct and lawful order if you again don’t drop your weapon as I have ordered/requested/plaintively asked.”

    “You see sir; my Department thinks I should give you every opportunity to resolve this situation without my having to use deadly force.”

    “What”?

    “No, since you’re not a LEO and and a criminal who is already breaking the law by threatening me with Deadly Physical Force, you are under no obligation to comply with my orders.”

    “What”?

    “No sir, you will probably be able to shoot me dead, and I won’t be able to “Shoot center mass” and stop the threat because I have this less than lethal weapon in my hand.”

    “What”?

    “No sir, once I will be dead my partner will be able to try and stop yours and your compatriots active deadly threat using his pistol/long gun, but unfortunately for my family I won’t be able to provide for them, nor watch all of their momentous occasions in their lives.”

    “The US Government in its wisdom has decided that the time needed to negotiate with your government about us carrying weapons in your country to assist them in stopping people like you is not worth mine or other Agents life.”

    “What”?

    “Thank you, your offer of the head shot is very gracious.” “Gracias.”
    Last edited by Dep D; 03-04-2011, 05:53 PM.

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  • PtlCop
    replied
    Originally posted by Bearcat357 View Post
    As stated in the other thread (by me).... You do realize that there are quite a few "Foreign Agents" running around the US armed right now.....along with a lot of US Agents doing the same thing in other countries.....?

    That's what boggles my mind about this.....they aren't doing LE there....they need the weapons to protect themselves..... If the Mexicans can't/won't protect our folks.....then we need to tell them to FO and keep our folks on this side of things.....
    Yes, but we don't have laws specifically addressing that, Mexico does apparently. In fact, we have reciprocity agreements in place with many places, but not Mexico.

    Like I said, we abide by the laws of the countries were in, whether we agree with them or not.

    If Mexico doesn't want us to allow our agents to carry guns, then our agents don't need to be there helping and advising the Mexicans.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bearcat357
    replied
    Originally posted by PtlCop View Post
    First off, the ICE Agents in Mexico aren't there for law enforcement purposes, if Mexico has laws that say that foreign agents can't carry guns into Mexico, then that's the law we, and they, have to live with. We don't allow armed Mexican agents into the United States to perform law enforcement functions
    As stated in the other thread (by me).... You do realize that there are quite a few "Foreign Agents" running around the US armed right now.....along with a lot of US Agents doing the same thing in other countries.....?

    That's what boggles my mind about this.....they aren't doing LE there....they need the weapons to protect themselves..... If the Mexicans can't/won't protect our folks.....then we need to tell them to FO and keep our folks on this side of things.....

    Leave a comment:


  • PtlCop
    replied
    You know, I get that most cops are republicans and accept that all of our views may not be 100% the same, but to insinuate that the President of the United States doesn't give a da** about "us" is absurd and idiotic. Furthermore, using Fox News for a source is about as reputable as using The Onion for a source.

    First off, the ICE Agents in Mexico aren't there for law enforcement purposes, if Mexico has laws that say that foreign agents can't carry guns into Mexico, then that's the law we, and they, have to live with. We don't allow armed Mexican agents into the United States to perform law enforcement functions, I fail to see why they should allow armed American agents to conduct law enforcement in Mexico. If they don't want American cops in Mexico armed, then that's their right as a country. It's also our right to pull those agents out of Mexico, which is what should happen.

    I am going to a conference in Canada in July, and I won't be permitted to carry my gun into Canada, do I **** and moan about it? No. If i'm killed while in Canada, do I expect the President to come out and say that all cops from the United States should be allowed to carry guns in Canada? No, I don't.

    When Americans, cops or otherwise, visit other countries, they're bound to abide by the laws there. We don't get special passes because we're Americans, and certainly not because we're cops from America.

    The fact that the "laws" in Mexico are merely suggestions, and that the lawless is, in fact, the norm, doesn't mean that we get to decide to usurp them and arm our agents in defiance of those laws. Simply put, if Calderon doesn't want to allow our agents to carry guns, we should discontinue the deployment of our agents to assist Mexico, period.

    Leave a comment:


  • 263armor
    replied
    Sorry, I missed that one. Thanks for pointing it out!

    Leave a comment:


  • DAL
    replied
    http://forums.officer.com/forums/sho...ents-in-Mexico

    Leave a comment:


  • 263armor
    started a topic Obama: No guns for US Agents in Mexico

    Obama: No guns for US Agents in Mexico

    Who didn't see this coming? Obama tells Mexico's President that we will not arm our Agents working in Mexico, even after two ICE Agents were attacked by cartel scum. I bet when Obama goes to Mexico, he brings armed Agents with him....

    This guy, Napolitano, and Holder don't give a damn about how many of us get killed. They don't like us.

    Links:

    http://constitutionclub.org/2011/03/...nts-in-mexico/
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...deron-meeting/

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