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  • Any ideas? Input?

    I've have a question/situation that has been bothering me and im not sure if it's policy or just a lack of desire by the officers involved/dirty.

    Right now during the "slow season" we agents find that there is more time to cruise around and see what the other law enforcement entities are getting into. A few weeks ago i was driving around and i saw a large number of PD officers setting up a perimeter around a small canyon that runs between homes in our area. Maybe about 4 football fields long, and 2 wide. I pulled up and asked what the situation was and how i could help. The officers informed me that the driver from a car chase had bailed and ran into this canyon. The officers wanted to know if our bird was up to help. Of course our bird is never up, but i offered to check the area out with my Palm IR (like a handheld FLIR). The whole time i noticed the other officers were standing on the sidewalk shinning their flashlights into the brush. In my experience just shinning your flashlight towards brush doesnt make people come out, and you usually wont find much either. I couldnt find anything giving off substantial body heat.

    I called for another agent to come assist. Took out my M-4 and we jumped into the canyon. It only took about a few minutes to pick up this guy's trail through the high grass. Which led up to the homes, and then follow his toe digs that ran along the homes until he jumped into a backyard. Of course i made my way back to the officers and informed them of what we saw to which some smirking a-hole responds "point to a canyon and you guys just cant help jumping in huh?" Needless to say i took a bit of offense and decided to pull out after that. Not really sure if they caught the guy after that or not.

    Anyways my question... Is there a reason as to why the pd would rather setup a perimeter and wait instead of going into the canyon after this guy? Is it policy after a chase? Oh and following this guy's sign could have been done by anyone with eyes and a light. They had more then enough manpower to jump in this canyon themselves. Possibly didnt want to get dirty. NO IM NOT STILL BITTER!!! ok maybe a little.

  • #2
    Some officers/agencies can't use horse sense. Guess they have strict policies restricting them from doing so.. No offense to anybody, but it's true.

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    • #3
      It doesn't sound like the officer who "talked down to you" acted very professionally. Probably just a case of sour grapes, after failing to get the suspect and I wouldn't take too much offense.

      Most police departments recognize the dangers inherent in foot pursuits. Setting up a perimeter is something they can do providing they have enough personnel on hand. Some agencies even go as far as prohibiting foot pursuits. Once established, an interior search conducted by a team of officers usually proves to be successful and safe.

      In this case, the BG apparently made it out of area, before it could be completely contained. If he hadn't, a careful search by designated officers would have been the next step and that's where you came it (with your NVD). Again, that officer really should have been more appreciative for the assistance you provided. Mouthing off like that isn't likely to insure you or your department will offer to help out so quickly in future incidents.

      Edited to add: Just wondering.....Did you and your fellow agent ask for permission, before you initiated your search? If not, entering another department's perimeter (even with good intentions) is a definite "No-No" and could be the reason for the hostility. Always work with the handling agency and communicate with them thoroughly, before initiating activity involving their suspect(s).
      Last edited by pulicords; 11-04-2009, 12:31 PM.
      "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."

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      • #4
        Somethings to ponder

        What were they chasing him for?

        Perhaps they had positive ID already?

        Do they get a bonus or a pay raise for getting snake bit, broke ankle, dirty uniform?

        Not my .02 just playing advocate. I would have followed from the get go.
        Any views or opinions presented by this prenomen are solely those of a burlesque author and do not necessarily represent those of a LEA or caementum couturier.

        nom de plume

        This is the internet- take all information with a grain of salt. Such could be valid and true or could be typed just for playing devils advocate.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by ryker View Post
          Somethings to ponder

          What were they chasing him for?

          Perhaps they had positive ID already?

          Do they get a bonus or a pay raise for getting snake bit, broke ankle, dirty uniform?

          Not my .02 just playing advocate. I would have followed from the get go.
          Stolen vehicle

          Im not sure, but dont believe so. Is possible since they had the passenger.

          We are paid decently to do a job. Snake bits are very very rare. Broken ankles heal, and its not hard to walk without getting hurt. Oh and dirt washes off.

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          • #6
            Warning: Policy and procedure plus officer safety issues should preclude an open conversation of tactics and operations by any agency.

            Sorry you took offense to a comment from an allied officer. Sometimes, humor can be diminutive and crass!

            It is like telling a Highway Patrol officer there is a pursuit, they will generally enter it and take over - err, ah, with a few exceptions.
            Be courteous to all, but intimate with few, and let those few be well tried before you give them your confidence!

            [George Washington (1732 - 1799)]

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            • #7
              No good deed ever goes unpunished. You would have ticked somebody off if you had passed out hundred dollar bills to everybody. Like most parts of this job, if at the end of the day, you are happy with what you accomplished, thats just got to be enough. Criticism is the name of the game now days.
              Proudly generated over a hundred thousand dollars in attorney's fees and counting

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              • #8
                Double tap, sorry
                Proudly generated over a hundred thousand dollars in attorney's fees and counting

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                • #9
                  Were they waiting on something? I know you said the bird wasn't available but were they awaiting K-9? Its common for us to set up a perimeter and wait for the k-9 to get there...and let the dog do its job in either catching him or flushing him out to officers on the perimeter.

                  If that were the case, you going into the canyon could have messed up the job of the K-9 officer.

                  Also, I dont see anything overly offensive to what the officer said. The way I read it here, it seems to be in a joking manner. Are you sure you aren't reading too much in to it?

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                  • #10
                    I'm all for k-9's but if you can track the guy yourself, why waste the time and let the guy get away? I guess that's just the patrol talking.

                    I guess it could have been a joke, but considering their track record when it comes to hitting the dirt...they might want to just internalize it.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by SDBP619 View Post

                      Im not sure, but dont believe so. Is possible since they had the passenger.

                      We are paid decently to do a job. Snake bits are very very rare. Broken ankles heal, and its not hard to walk without getting hurt. Oh and dirt washes off.
                      So they have a passenger and finger prints.

                      In my neck of the woods we get paid about the same as a department/zone manager of a Walmart.
                      Any views or opinions presented by this prenomen are solely those of a burlesque author and do not necessarily represent those of a LEA or caementum couturier.

                      nom de plume

                      This is the internet- take all information with a grain of salt. Such could be valid and true or could be typed just for playing devils advocate.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by SDBP619 View Post
                        I'm all for k-9's but if you can track the guy yourself, why waste the time and let the guy get away? I guess that's just the patrol talking.

                        I guess it could have been a joke, but considering their track record when it comes to hitting the dirt...they might want to just internalize it.
                        Rather than continuing to bad mouth the officers involved, you might want to let us know whether or not they requested you to enter their crime scene and conduct a search. If they didn't, it doesn't matter what they planned on doing or what their "track record" was, you were wrong to act independently.
                        "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by pulicords View Post
                          Rather than continuing to bad mouth the officers involved, you might want to let us know whether or not they requested you to enter their crime scene and conduct a search. If they didn't, it doesn't matter what they planned on doing or what their "track record" was, you were wrong to act independently.
                          well puli originally they asked for the help of our angency's bird since they can afford their own. When that wasnt available i offered to scan the area with my IR camera. To which they were more then happy for the assist. When i could pick up any body heat, i asked if i could walk out the canyon. No objections from the officer. I dont think anybody is that much of an a hole to jump someone elses scene without asking permission.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by SDBP619 View Post
                            When i could pick up any body heat, i asked if i could walk out the canyon. No objections from the officer. I dont think anybody is that much of an a hole to jump someone elses scene without asking permission.
                            I'm not getting into a pizzing match with you, but there is a big difference between "no objections" and specifically being told you can enter the crime scene. There are people that would be that much of an "a hole" (to act independently), but I'm not saying your one of them. It's also likely that someone could conduct an independent search under the mistaken belief that a failure to object is the same thing as explicit approval.

                            If I were in your situation, I'd have offered my assistance (to search) to the ranking officer at the scene. If approved, I'd have only conducted the search with one or more officers from the handling agency. If they were in your immediate presence during the search, neither this guy or any other members of the department would have any reason to complain or act unprofessionally. Without them, it might have appeared that you acted on your own (even if that's not true) and could be the cause for the friction that followed.
                            Last edited by pulicords; 11-07-2009, 01:42 PM.
                            "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I suggest you have an officer contact the supervisor in charge and ask whether he would like your assistance. If so, get all the info you can, before you get involved. This should also help you with your supervisor in case there are any problems, and also will defuse grumbling from the officers already on the scene.
                              Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
                              Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

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