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  • Little Concerned

    I may be wrong, but I believe a Police Officer cannot stop a person just for walking on property if there is no signs warning against that can they.

    No crime has been committed, just students walking through to get to there dorms.
    IGNORE LIST - Banastretarlton AKA "banana boy"

    "In the fields of observation chance favors only prepared mind"
    -----Louis Pasteur

    "Sweat in training saves blood on the battlefield."

    -------Col. David "Hack" Hackworth

    On my 7 year old 2nd Grade Class wall

    ------------YOU are RESPONSIBLE for YOUR OWN ACTIONS

  • #2
    Originally posted by VACOP1 View Post
    I may be wrong, but I believe a Police Officer cannot stop a person just for walking on property if there is no signs warning against that can they.

    No crime has been committed, just students walking through to get to there dorms.
    Sure they can. It's called a Terry Stop.

    If you don't have "No Trespassing" signs on your property, does that mean people can just hang out on your deck, use your grill, etc? No, of course not.

    In most places just being in, or on, property where the person has no contractual interest in said property, and is there without permission of someone legally authorized to give it, is trespassing, a crime.

    Your scenario is analogous to somebody walking through your backyard, where no signs are posted saying that they can't, to get to a playing field. Just because you don't have signs means it's ok for them to do so? Absolutely not. Same with your scenario.
    Last edited by PtlCop; 10-29-2009, 02:23 PM.
    Originally posted by K40
    To me, open carry is the equivalent of the couple making out and groping each other at the food court in the mall. Yeah, they are probably legal, as long as they don't start getting undressed. But they are still social retards.
    ‎"You go for a man hard enough and fast enough, he don't have time to think about how many's with him; he thinks about himself, and how he might get clear of that wrath that's about to set down on him." - Rooster Cogburn

    Comment


    • #3
      Why can't you? What's wrong with stopping and talking to someone on a college campus vs. walking down the highway? The type of stop depends entirely on the type of activity observed. You can stop and talk to anyone. Whether or not they can walk away or can be lawfully detained is a different matter.

      Comment


      • #4
        Since when is a VA hospital public property? Your facility should have signs warning of the property being federal property and as such if the students are ignoring said signs, you can charge under 38 CFR 1.218(b)

        (8) Entry into areas posted as closed to the public or others (trespass)
        I don't answer recruitment messages....

        Comment


        • #5
          Sure they can. You need to expound a little more.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by VACOP1 View Post
            No crime has been committed, just students walking through to get to there dorms.
            If a student tried to walk through my home or backyard, they'd certainly be stopped and where they were going wouldn't be a valid excuse.
            "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."

            Comment


            • #7
              Of course we can below is our statute for it here. It also gives us good leadway to stop someone just loafing the streets late at night with no where in particular to go (drug traffic).

              #7 is for loitering which for us means no lawful presence on the property. If you are a patron you are buying something there and then you leave that is lawful presence, buying something but hanging around or just hanging around or walking on the property without being a patron is a violation of this subsection.

              #6 is for grown men who live off their baby momma who is getting assistance and they don't have a legit job. (or living off parents or grandparents).


              §107. Vagrancy

              The following persons are and shall be guilty of vagrancy:

              (1) Habitual drunkards; or

              (2) Persons who live in houses of ill fame or who habitually associate with prostitutes; or

              (3) Able-bodied persons who beg or solicit alms, provided that this article shall not apply to persons soliciting alms for bona fide religious, charitable or eleemosynary organizations with the authorization thereof; or

              (4) Habitual gamblers or persons who for the most part maintain themselves by gambling; or

              (5) Able-bodied persons without lawful means of support who do not seek employment and take employment when it is available to them; or

              (6) Able-bodied persons of the age of majority who obtain their support gratis from persons receiving old age pensions or from persons receiving welfare assistance from the state; or

              (7) Persons who loaf the streets habitually or who frequent the streets habitually at late or unusual hours of the night, or who loiter around any public place of assembly, without lawful business or reason to be present; or

              (8) Persons found in or near any structure, movable, vessel, or private grounds, without being able to account for their lawful presence therein
              ; or

              (9) Prostitutes.

              Whoever commits the crime of vagrancy shall be fined not more than two hundred dollars, or imprisoned for not more than six months, or both.

              Amended by Acts 1952, No. 434, §1; Acts 1968, No. 647, §1.

              Ignored: Towncop, Pulicords, TacoMac, Ten08

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by PtlCop View Post
                Sure they can. It's called a Terry Stop.

                If you don't have "No Trespassing" signs on your property, does that mean people can just hang out on your deck, use your grill, etc? No, of course not.

                In most places just being in, or on, property where the person has no contractual interest in said property, and is there without permission of someone legally authorized to give it, is trespassing, a crime.

                Your scenario is analogous to somebody walking through your backyard, where no signs are posted saying that they can't, to get to a playing field. Just because you don't have signs means it's ok for them to do so? Absolutely not. Same with your scenario.

                I agree, but there is a student dorm behind us, a road way that leads to the rest of the University.
                IGNORE LIST - Banastretarlton AKA "banana boy"

                "In the fields of observation chance favors only prepared mind"
                -----Louis Pasteur

                "Sweat in training saves blood on the battlefield."

                -------Col. David "Hack" Hackworth

                On my 7 year old 2nd Grade Class wall

                ------------YOU are RESPONSIBLE for YOUR OWN ACTIONS

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by creolecop View Post
                  Of course we can below is our statute for it here. It also gives us good leadway to stop someone just loafing the streets late at night with no where in particular to go (drug traffic).

                  #7 is for loitering which for us means no lawful presence on the property. If you are a patron you are buying something there and then you leave that is lawful presence, buying something but hanging around or just hanging around or walking on the property without being a patron is a violation of this subsection.

                  #6 is for grown men who live off their baby momma who is getting assistance and they don't have a legit job. (or living off parents or grandparents).


                  §107. Vagrancy

                  The following persons are and shall be guilty of vagrancy:

                  (1) Habitual drunkards; or

                  (2) Persons who live in houses of ill fame or who habitually associate with prostitutes; or

                  (3) Able-bodied persons who beg or solicit alms, provided that this article shall not apply to persons soliciting alms for bona fide religious, charitable or eleemosynary organizations with the authorization thereof; or

                  (4) Habitual gamblers or persons who for the most part maintain themselves by gambling; or

                  (5) Able-bodied persons without lawful means of support who do not seek employment and take employment when it is available to them; or

                  (6) Able-bodied persons of the age of majority who obtain their support gratis from persons receiving old age pensions or from persons receiving welfare assistance from the state; or

                  (7) Persons who loaf the streets habitually or who frequent the streets habitually at late or unusual hours of the night, or who loiter around any public place of assembly, without lawful business or reason to be present; or

                  (8) Persons found in or near any structure, movable, vessel, or private grounds, without being able to account for their lawful presence therein
                  ; or

                  (9) Prostitutes.

                  Whoever commits the crime of vagrancy shall be fined not more than two hundred dollars, or imprisoned for not more than six months, or both.

                  Amended by Acts 1952, No. 434, §1; Acts 1968, No. 647, §1.

                  There is no vagrancy, just walking from the dorms to the rest of the university
                  IGNORE LIST - Banastretarlton AKA "banana boy"

                  "In the fields of observation chance favors only prepared mind"
                  -----Louis Pasteur

                  "Sweat in training saves blood on the battlefield."

                  -------Col. David "Hack" Hackworth

                  On my 7 year old 2nd Grade Class wall

                  ------------YOU are RESPONSIBLE for YOUR OWN ACTIONS

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Bro you're not painting a good picture of your scenario. Please give a more detailed explanation so I can figure out what kind of situation you're working with.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      If someone is on property that they do not own you can stop them to investigate why they are there. The exception would be a public area where pedestrian are ment to travel on like a sidewalk or park.

                      It's just an investigative stop (terry stop) and unless you have RS they are free to walk away.
                      Due to the Juvenile bickering and annoying trolling committed by members of this forum I have started an igore list. If your name is listed below I can't see you.

                      CityCopDC, Fire Moose, Carbonfiberfoot, Damiansolomon

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by VACOP1 View Post
                        There is no vagrancy, just walking from the dorms to the rest of the university
                        VACOP, again, why are you guys NOT issuing summons for violations of 38 CFR? If signage is a problem, get your facilities to post the signs stating federal property no tresspassing.
                        I don't answer recruitment messages....

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I didn't even hear the circumstances? Students cutting through a common area to get to another common area? Is that it? VACOP please expand on your scenario or question or incident and I'm sure I can help out. In my beginning years I worked in a City blighted by major crime and drug activity and I did everything I could do with what the law would allow me to make drug arrest that would hold up in court but I need to know more about your specific circumstances where you work to give an educated experienced opinion brother.
                          "Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. The MARINES don't have that problem." ....Ronald Reagan

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by VACOP1 View Post
                            There is no vagrancy, just walking from the dorms to the rest of the university
                            VACOP I'm just giving you examples of how a LEO can stop people on property HE believes are not a patron to a business or has no lawful right to be. Although I'm citing Louisiana law, most states have something very much like this just called different titles with slightly different wording but mean the same thing. If that one isn't good below is our Criminal Trespassing law:

                            4. CRIMINAL TRESPASS

                            §63. Criminal trespass

                            A. No person shall enter any structure, watercraft, or movable owned by another without express, legal, or implied authorization.

                            B. No person shall enter upon immovable property owned by another without express, legal, or implied authorization.

                            C. No person shall remain in or upon property, movable or immovable, owned by another without express, legal, or implied authorization
                            .

                            D. It shall be an affirmative defense to a prosecution for a violation of Subsection A, B, or C of this Section, that the accused had express, legal, or implied authority to be in the movable or on the immovable property.

                            E. The following persons may enter or remain upon the structure, watercraft, movable or immovable property, of another:

                            (1) A duly commissioned law enforcement officer in the performance of his duties.

                            (2) Any firefighter, whether or not a member of a volunteer or other fire department, and any employee or agent of the Louisiana Department of Agriculture and Forestry engaged in locating and suppressing a fire.

                            (3) Emergency medical personnel engaged in the rendering of medical assistance to an individual.

                            (4) Any federal, state or local government employee, public utility employee or agent engaged in suppressing or dealing with an emergency that presents an imminent danger to human safety or health or to the environment.

                            (5) Any federal, state or local government employee, public utility employee or agent in the performance of his duties when otherwise authorized by law to enter or remain on immovable or movable property.

                            (6) Any person authorized by a court of law to enter or remain on immovable property.

                            (7) Any person exercising the mere right of passage to an enclosed estate, as otherwise provided by law.

                            F. The following persons may enter or remain upon immovable property of another, unless specifically forbidden to do so by the owner or other person with authority, either orally or in writing:

                            (1) A professional land surveyor or his authorized personnel, engaged in the "Practice of Land Surveying", as defined in R.S. 37:682.

                            (2) A person, affiliate, employee, agent or contractor of any business which is regulated by the Louisiana Public Service Commission or by a local franchising authority or the Federal Communication Commission under the Cable Reregulation Act of 1992 or of a municipal or public utility, while acting in the course and scope of his employment or agency relating to the operation, repair, or maintenance of a facility, servitude or any property located on the immovable property which belongs to such a business.

                            (3) Any person making a delivery, soliciting, selling any product or service, conducting a survey or poll, a real estate licensee or other person who has a legitimate reason for making a delivery, conducting business or communicating with the owner, lessee, custodian or a resident of the immovable property, and who, immediately upon entry, seeks to make the delivery, to conduct business or to conduct the communication.

                            (4) An employee of the owner, lessee or custodian of the immovable property while performing his duties, functions and responsibilities in the course and scope of his employment.

                            (5) The owner of domestic livestock or his employees or agents while in the process of retrieving his domestic livestock that have escaped from an area fenced to retain such domestic livestock.

                            (6) The owner of a domestic animal while in the sole process of merely retrieving his domestic animal from immovable property and not having a firearm or other weapon on his person.

                            (7) Any candidate for political office or any person working on behalf of a candidate for a political office.

                            (8) The owner or occupant of a watercraft or vessel traveling in salt water engaged in any lawful purpose for the purpose of retrieval of his property or for obtaining assistance in an emergency situation.

                            G. The following penalties shall be imposed for a violation of this Section:

                            (1) For the first offense, the fine shall be not less than one hundred dollars and not more than five hundred dollars, or imprisonment for not more than thirty days, or both.

                            (2) For the second offense, the fine shall be not less than three hundred dollars and not more than seven hundred fifty dollars, or imprisonment for not more than ninety days, or both.

                            (3) For the third offense and all subsequent offenses, the fine shall be not less than five hundred dollars and not more than one thousand dollars, or imprisonment for not less than sixty days and not more than six months, or both, and forfeiture to the law enforcement authority of any property seized in connection with the violation.

                            (4) A person may be convicted of a second offense and any subsequent offenses regardless of whether any prior conviction involved the same structure, watercraft, movable or immovable property and regardless of the time sequence of the occurrence of the offenses.

                            H. The provisions of any other law notwithstanding, owners, lessees, and custodians of structures, watercraft, movable or immovable property shall not be answerable for damages sustained by any person who enters upon the structure, watercraft, movable or immovable property without express, legal or implied authorization, or who without legal authorization, remains upon the structure, watercraft, movable or immovable property after being forbidden by the owner, or other person with authority to do so; however, the owner, lessee or custodian of the property may be answerable for damages only upon a showing that the damages sustained were the result of the intentional acts or gross negligence of the owner, lessee or custodian.

                            I. A minor ten years old or younger shall not be arrested, detained or apprehended for the crime of trespass.

                            Amended by Acts 1960, No. 458, §1; Acts 1964, No. 497, §1; Acts 1981, No. 78, §1, eff. Jan. 1, 1982; Acts 1990, No. 870, §1, eff. Jan. 1, 1991; Acts 1991, No. 438, §1; Acts 1993, No. 887, §1; Acts 2003, No. 279, §3; Acts 2003, No. 802, §1.

                            Ignored: Towncop, Pulicords, TacoMac, Ten08

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by VACOP1 View Post
                              I may be wrong, but I believe a Police Officer cannot stop a person just for walking on property if there is no signs warning against that can they.

                              No crime has been committed, just students walking through to get to there dorms.
                              It's going to depend on the facts and circumstances involved. Need more info. But try talking to the staff at the university if the students are creating a problem.

                              Comment

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