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  • Written Proposals

    Has anyone been asked to write proposals for your department? Our department currently provides vehicle lockouts as a service. As a patrol officer I get sent to a lot of them. Annually we due about 5000 lockouts.

    Due to the ever changing economic times our city is crying broke and we are understaffed. Those of us on patrol have suggested changing our policy to charge a small administrative fee for the service or to change the policy so that we will only unlock a vehicle if a child or animal is loked in the car as an emergency situation.

    I am also putting a proposal together to get funding to switch our current shotgun mounts to a universal mount that can accept both shotguns and rifles.

    Writing budgetary/business proposals is not my strong suit so was looking for any help. If anyone has examples or templates that used they would be much appreciated.

    Stay safe!

  • #2
    If you're going to charge for anything, charge for multiple false business and residential alarms.

    Comment


    • #3
      I'd be very, very careful...especially if you're in a small city, about charging for things like vehicle unlocks. Sure they're not really "police related," but they're community service oriented, and allow you to make contacts with people. I've gotten some good tips about drug activity from people in apartment complexes while unlocking vehicles for them.

      We charge administrative fees for false alarms at businesses and residences, and for performing BMV checks on vehicles (mostly because the BMV required it to be done, but never consulted law enforcement about doing it, just kind of assumed we'd do it).

      You guys might do 5,000 vehicle unlocks a year that take about 1 minute each. Take the number of false alarms you get and I bet it's significantly higher. Charge for those instead. Showing up on the scene and demanding money for a lock out is A LOT different from a PR standpoint than the home or business owner getting a bill from City Hall for a false alarm a month after the fact. Taking the money from the person at the scene (especially in the tough economic times you talk about) is going to harm your community relationships.

      Then what do you do when the person doesn't have cash on them, but is standing outside their car at midnight in a lonely parking lot in the rain? Do you really not unlock the car for them?
      Originally posted by K40
      To me, open carry is the equivalent of the couple making out and groping each other at the food court in the mall. Yeah, they are probably legal, as long as they don't start getting undressed. But they are still social retards.
      ‎"You go for a man hard enough and fast enough, he don't have time to think about how many's with him; he thinks about himself, and how he might get clear of that wrath that's about to set down on him." - Rooster Cogburn

      Comment


      • #4
        The agency from I'm retired does not offer that service. In the past, I've known of several municipal agencies which did "vehicle unlocks". The locksmiths of the area, raised vocal objection to the practice, and it was soon discontinued. On a personal note, I'd be very reluctant to attempt a vehicle unlock on today's "high tech" vehicles. My suggestion, admitedly very personal, is that you recommend your agency discontinue offering that particular service.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by PhilipCal View Post
          The agency from I'm retired does not offer that service. In the past, I've known of several municipal agencies which did "vehicle unlocks". The locksmiths of the area, raised vocal objection to the practice, and it was soon discontinued. On a personal note, I'd be very reluctant to attempt a vehicle unlock on today's "high tech" vehicles. My suggestion, admitedly very personal, is that you recommend your agency discontinue offering that particular service.
          X2

          and

          If a child is locked inside then maybe with a waiver from the parent for any damages. In reality the FD is more suited for this since essentially it is medically neccesary act if you have to become involve. I would point out the liability issue in damaging a vehicle while doing a lockout service.

          I also second the issue of charging a service fee to respond after 3 false alarms at a residence. 100 bucks to 300 bucks is the norm.

          I would also highly recommend that lost property reports go the way of the dinosaur. I lost my, cell phone, ring, necklace, whatever is not a reason to call police. The insurance company or cell phone company just tells them they need a Police report so they can deny a claim.

          I would suggest that any proposal list pro's, cons, and manpower savings and expected outcome of whatever you want to propose.

          List any research and other agencies that have implemented similar policies. This will help justify the expected outcome. If crime increased or there was an unexpected outcome either good or bad from the change.
          The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

          Comment


          • #6
            What the hell are you guys using to open cars, a 2x4? I've never damaged a car while opening it, and i've probably opened 3,000 - 4,000. I'm assuming your 911 and Dispatch calls are all recorded? We've got a standard "Release of Liability" form which is read to the person and they must consent that they understand with their full name and by saying "i understand." If they don't want to do it, our dispatchers end the call. If a third party calls in, we have a written form that they have to sign releasing us of liability. Both the recorded call and written form have been approved by our city attorney as legally binding.

            And who gives two ****s what the locksmiths in the area complain about? Do we not do criminal investigations because some Private Investigator in the area complains about it? Do we not wash our cars ourselves because some car washing business in the area complains? That's the most ridiculous reasoning for discontinuing a practice i've ever heard.
            Last edited by PtlCop; 10-19-2009, 07:08 PM.
            Originally posted by K40
            To me, open carry is the equivalent of the couple making out and groping each other at the food court in the mall. Yeah, they are probably legal, as long as they don't start getting undressed. But they are still social retards.
            ‎"You go for a man hard enough and fast enough, he don't have time to think about how many's with him; he thinks about himself, and how he might get clear of that wrath that's about to set down on him." - Rooster Cogburn

            Comment


            • #7
              Two words: Liability Issue. Let the locksmiths take care of it, we don't have the time to handle those type of calls plus it is a major liability.
              In Memory of A Fallen Hero

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by JPSO Recruit View Post
                Two words: Liability Issue. Let the locksmiths take care of it, we don't have the time to handle those type of calls plus it is a major liability.
                Major liability? How do you figure? How many cars have you ever damaged opening them? I've done around 4,000 and never damaged one, ever. Not that I'm special or the best vehicle unlock guy out there, i just don't get how you damage a car unlocking it. I mean, sure, if you're busting the window out with your flashlight or something. Regardless, that's what liability waivers are for.
                Originally posted by K40
                To me, open carry is the equivalent of the couple making out and groping each other at the food court in the mall. Yeah, they are probably legal, as long as they don't start getting undressed. But they are still social retards.
                ‎"You go for a man hard enough and fast enough, he don't have time to think about how many's with him; he thinks about himself, and how he might get clear of that wrath that's about to set down on him." - Rooster Cogburn

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by PtlCop View Post
                  Major liability? How do you figure? How many cars have you ever damaged opening them? I've done around 4,000 and never damaged one, ever. Not that I'm special or the best vehicle unlock guy out there, i just don't get how you damage a car unlocking it. I mean, sure, if you're busting the window out with your flashlight or something. Regardless, that's what liability waivers are for.
                  It's nice that you have done over 4,000 unlocks, with 1500 officers and over 400,000 citizens it is an increased risk on the department that I'm glad we don't handle. Sometimes people make mistakes and crack windows, with that many deputies mistakes are bound to happen. There was even one incident where the side airbag deployed nearly killing a deputy. Let Pop A Lock or AAA handle it, it's what they get paid to do.
                  In Memory of A Fallen Hero

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by PtlCop View Post
                    What the hell are you guys using to open cars, a 2x4? I've never damaged a car while opening it, and i've probably opened 3,000 - 4,000. I'm assuming your 911 and Dispatch calls are all recorded? We've got a standard "Release of Liability" form which is read to the person and they must consent that they understand with their full name and by saying "i understand." If they don't want to do it, our dispatchers end the call. If a third party calls in, we have a written form that they have to sign releasing us of liability. Both the recorded call and written form have been approved by our city attorney as legally binding.

                    And who gives two ****s what the locksmiths in the area complain about? Do we not do criminal investigations because some Private Investigator in the area complains about it? Do we not wash our cars ourselves because some car washing business in the area complains? That's the most ridiculous reasoning for discontinuing a practice i've ever heard.
                    I simply replied, and noted Agency policy. I also entered a personal perspective. Thought I was allowed to do that. Obviously, you disagree, and that's fine. It's no reason to belittle those colleagues who disagree with you.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by JPSO Recruit View Post
                      It's nice that you have done over 4,000 unlocks, with 1500 officers and over 400,000 citizens it is an increased risk on the department that I'm glad we don't handle. Sometimes people make mistakes and crack windows, with that many deputies mistakes are bound to happen. There was even one incident where the side airbag deployed nearly killing a deputy. Let Pop A Lock or AAA handle it, it's what they get paid to do.
                      We've got around that many people in our county, still can't think of a single incident like you're saying. I'm not doubting you at all, just saying that one or two incidents isn't a reason to scrap a good community relations program. I couldn't in good conscience tell some poor lady to pay $150 for a locksmith when I can bust out my wedge and do it in 10 seconds.
                      Originally posted by K40
                      To me, open carry is the equivalent of the couple making out and groping each other at the food court in the mall. Yeah, they are probably legal, as long as they don't start getting undressed. But they are still social retards.
                      ‎"You go for a man hard enough and fast enough, he don't have time to think about how many's with him; he thinks about himself, and how he might get clear of that wrath that's about to set down on him." - Rooster Cogburn

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Citation35HF
                        Man! Again you don't get something, and your just being stubborn again because that's the way Hamilton County does it. I hate to comment on another one of your posts, but your always very quick to belittle anyone because they don't do it how your agency does it! I am one county south of you in Indianapolis, and we wouldn't dare do lockouts, our run load is wayyy to high to be able to deal with those. Those wedge's and inflatable balloons you use are an expensive tool that does minimize the possibility of damage to someones car. However most agencies cannot afford those and must rely on the old fashion slim jim, which are metal and have a much higher risk of damaging someone's vehicle. IPD used to do lockouts years ago if someone flagged the officer down and asked. But after multiple lawsuits due to scratched paint jobs, etc, Officers were told THEY WOULD NEVER DO LOCKOUTS on civilian's vehicles. And I would have no trouble telling an old lady in the rain I couldn't do a lockout, but that I would have control/dispatch call a service for her.........
                        An IMPD officer slim jim'd my personal car for me two times last year....

                        I'm not belittling people, i'm breaking apart stupid arguments like "oh it's a major liability." It's not. It's as absurd an argument as the people who still press on the backs of vehicle's on traffic stops. If an agency doesn't want to do lockouts because they're too busy or they think they're not law enforcement related, that's fine. But don't use "its a major liability" as the argument when that's just simply not the case. You don't think some of the rich folk up here would have sued us by now for some damage to their cars?
                        Originally posted by K40
                        To me, open carry is the equivalent of the couple making out and groping each other at the food court in the mall. Yeah, they are probably legal, as long as they don't start getting undressed. But they are still social retards.
                        ‎"You go for a man hard enough and fast enough, he don't have time to think about how many's with him; he thinks about himself, and how he might get clear of that wrath that's about to set down on him." - Rooster Cogburn

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by PhilipCal View Post
                          I simply replied, and noted Agency policy. I also entered a personal perspective. Thought I was allowed to do that. Obviously, you disagree, and that's fine. It's no reason to belittle those colleagues who disagree with you.
                          I didn't belittle anyone. I pointed out a weak argument. There's a difference.
                          Originally posted by K40
                          To me, open carry is the equivalent of the couple making out and groping each other at the food court in the mall. Yeah, they are probably legal, as long as they don't start getting undressed. But they are still social retards.
                          ‎"You go for a man hard enough and fast enough, he don't have time to think about how many's with him; he thinks about himself, and how he might get clear of that wrath that's about to set down on him." - Rooster Cogburn

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Ptlcop....

                            Just because you haven't been sued yet, doesn't mean it wont happen.....I don't know about out the in Indiana, but your 'release of liability' forms will NOT always protect you here in CA.....they just then allege negligence in your actions, which resulted in the damage.

                            We receive ZERO training on how to open cars, and don't even carry slimjims, never mind wedges ect. I didnt receive 5 minutes of training on how to do it in the academy, and that was 20 years ago; never mind the new recruits going through now.

                            We are prohibited by policy to slimjim a car; we simply call for a wrecker....if it is an extreme situation (kid in the car ect) then a window gets busted out.

                            If you violate policy and damage a car, the department will probably not cover you in the lawsuit....AND they will throw you right under the bus as far as time on the bricks goes.

                            We are not the only agency that doesnt do lockouts here in LA....not by a long shot.....if yours does, have at it......many dont; for one reason or another
                            The posts on this forum by this poster are of his personal opinion, and his personal opinion alone

                            "Politicians are like diapers. They need to be changed often and for the same reason"

                            "We fight not for glory; nor for wealth; nor honor, but only and alone we fight for freedom, which no good man surrenders but with his life"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              ptlcop--I've damaged cars before. I had one officer who must of just had the right torque on the right spot and a window shattered. I have personally destroyed inside wiring that would not allow the door to lock and unlock anymore. It has been several decades ago, but I also heard (a judge?) say that a release is a document signed under duress because of the need to get into the vehicle, so therefore means nothing.

                              Comment

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