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Anyone else dealt with/seen this? Passive resistance/anti-cop stuff?

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  • Anyone else dealt with/seen this? Passive resistance/anti-cop stuff?

    Title doesn't do it justice, but was at a loss as to how to title this other than "anyone run into a wackjob like this, and how did you not lose your mind trying to deal with it??"

    Last night my Sgt makes a traffic stop. What he saw was a car leave the downtown bar area with no headlights (score, right?), and he stopped the car. He asks for another unit, and and when I arrive, I see him at the driver's side of the vehicle with the door open, talking to the driver inside. As I walk up, I hear him informing the driver that he has a duty to identify himself. Driver says, in a low monotone, NOT combative, "Why should I identify myself? Why don't you identify yourself?" Sgt says, "Like I said, I'm Sgt So-n-so with 'City' Police Department." Sgt says something else that I don't catch because I'm scoping out guy. He's just sitting there, belted in, with his hands in his lap. Sgt asks him if he's diabetic, and the guy says, "Why should I be diabetic? Do I look diabetic?" I say, "Anyone can be diabetic man, we're just checking." Driver says again, looking at my Sgt, "Why won't you identify yourself?" Sgt points at his jumpsuit, which has his name in bright white thread an inch high and says, "I'm Sgt So-n-so and this is Officer Jenners." Driver said some mumbly-jumbly thing about identifying our authority or something, and by then we had it. Sgt reaches in and unsnaps the belt and grabs his left hand, saying "Get out of the car." Driver says, "Why should I get out of the car?" I get between my Sgt and the car door, grab his right arm and we yoink him out of the car and onto the ground. No resistence to anything, he just goes flop.

    While searching him, I found a guitar pick. I'm a chatter, so I ask "You play the guitar?" Guy says, "Why should I play the guitar? Should I play the guitar?"

    Back at the PD, Sgt tries to get him through the DUI process with refusals. He wouldn't sign anywhere saying his rights had been read. In fact, my Sgt quoted him as saying "Why should I sign there? I'll sign there for one million dollars prepaid in advance." Also continued to refuse to do anything, including cooperate to get booked. He stated we were taking his "personal property" because "my finger prints and picture are my personal property." He was told by the Sgt that if he would just say yes or no one whether or not he'd cooperate to get booked, he could leave, but if he didn't he'd stay until Monday to see the judge. Guy continued to insist we hadn't identified ourselves and we needed to show him our authority. He then said, "I conditionally accept your offer as long as you put in writing that I am not under contract to you." What??

    Anyways, he stayed, but I'm curious where he got this stuff. We called some numbers for him to make sure he wasn't mental, and got his brother-in-law. BIL said the guy read stuff online about "sovereignty" and thought he could talk his way out of anything.

    Anyone run into this? Know what Web sites this guy might have looked at?

  • #2
    He sounds like a Constitutionalist of some sort,not recognizing authority, believing his identity is personal property to disclose or not. Often they refuse to get drivers licenses because they will not recognize the governments power to regulate in that area. They even make their own license plates....and, they can go 10-8 on you without warning.
    T.K.
    http://tonykoester.blogspot.com/

    "Nothing can destroy a government more quickly than its failure to observe its own laws, or worse, its disregard of the charter of its own existence" (Mr. Justice Stewart, Elkins v. United States 364 U.S. 206 (1960)

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    • #3
      Had this happen to me one time. Just like LAWYERCOP said, the guy was a "Constitutionalist" or Posse Cummitatis (sp). He didn't recoginize my authority, had a cardboard plate on his car. Was funny when he went to court though. Didn't recognize the court told the judge it was a military court because the American Flag had the fringe around it. Then took me to civil court and kept calling his car "the classic". Classic POS maybe, had all kinds of garbage and two dogs. Tired saying I illegal incarcerated his dogs, etc., etc. See California isn't the only state with fruits and nuts.
      "Lay there and bleed awhile before you feel some real pain."

      "Have a cup of coffee, a pall mall, and relax!"

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      • #4
        My understanding on these right-wing nut-jobs is that they don't believe that police have any authority. A sheriff and his deputies do have authority to them since a sheriff is an elected official and not appointed. They're just a bunch of idiots who need to get with the program if you ask me.

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        • #5
          I agree. I'm just trying to find out where he got some of his verbage from. FYI this wasn't an old qwack, he's 25. I thought he was a "Greener" (from Evergreen College in Olympia), they do this stuff as well.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Jenners View Post
            I'm just trying to find out where he got some of his verbage from.
            This site, aptly named "Idiot Legal Arguments", may be of assistance.

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            • #7
              sounds like a typical idiot that got arrested for DUI.
              "What the problem is?"

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              • #8
                Yeah just some guy that didn't want to go along with the process. I'd rather have that guy then a guy who refuses everything, however is a complete donkey. Best thing to do is just go along with the process. He doesn't have to agree with everything you explained to him, but at least you still explained it.

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                • #9
                  I had a dirt bag try something like that with me. Once I put the handcuffs on him he gave me all his information. It's amazing what those little bracelets will do.

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                  • #10
                    I've had 2 passive resisters, not to this extreme though. Both occured during traffic stops, and ended very quickly with the operator providing his/her DL, when I informed them they would be arrested for obstruction. Neither one of mine were drunk though, just stupid.

                    I had another guy just this weekend refuse to give me ID. He says, "why am I being stopped?" I explained it for the second time, and he says, "Im not giving you ID until you give me a valid reason for this stop." So I explain to him that driving over the double yellow line and almost hitting my troop car head on is a valid reason for a V and T stop. Finally I asked him to step out of the car, and he was like, "fine, here my DL and my police ID, Im a retired cop from ****" That burned me up
                    I make my living on Irish welfare.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Jenners View Post
                      I agree. I'm just trying to find out where he got some of his verbage from. FYI this wasn't an old qwack, he's 25. I thought he was a "Greener" (from Evergreen College in Olympia), they do this stuff as well.
                      Oh yes, there are wackjobs a plenty here in the great Evergreen State. I run into them once in a while. No problems--if they start cranking up like yours did, then it's off to the greybar for obstruction plus whatever the original offense was. Oh--and PLEASE go ahead and resist--even a little bit--when the restraints go on. PLEASE do! Another charge stacked on.

                      Then, it's time to get busy. Usually, the search incident to arrest yields some neat stuff. It is really interesting to see how many times arrestees will usually talk themselves into a custodial arrest--whereas, if they just kept their mouths SHUT, they'd walk with a warning, or at the worst, a cite and release.

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                      • #12
                        It happens occasinally. Usually the "give me your ID and the worst you'll get is a ticket, continue to refuse and you'll be arrested for Refusal to ID. You don't want to go to jail, I don't want to do your paperwork, so do me a favor and give me your ID."

                        Only once has that totally failed and I ended up with the "yoink from the car" manuever. She told the judge only Jesus could judge her or something to that affect.

                        More commonly I've had drunks play the game when offered a chemical test, with some "i neither consent nor refuse" type game. I'll either put them in front of a breath machine or take them down for a blood draw. Almost always they eventually refuse and I get a warrant for their blood.
                        I miss you, Dave.
                        http://www.odmp.org/officer/20669-of...david-s.-moore

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                        • #13
                          These guys are dangerous. They usually tote around their rifles and shotguns with them and "defend" themselves if we stop them. They're all over my area.
                          -Stay safe

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                          • #14
                            Ever run into a "Moorish National," we've run into a few of them before. They don't recognize the power of the police, they give fake names and say that the government has no power over them. They generally keep the charade up the entire time, including at the jail where I typically book them in as John Doe until THEY give up their real name to the judge.

                            Some of the worst are the ones who you THINK are being jerks, but are really deaf, hard of hearing, having medical issues, etc. I feel like an *** after those encounters sometimes. Other times I don't. Pulled over a deaf guy about 5 years ago, could quickly tell that he was deaf, could also quickly tell that he was drunk. He kept turning his head and wouldn't look at me to read my lips or read what I had written down on my notepad. Cover officers (2 of them) got there, I took a marker and wrote "get out of the car or go to jail" on 3 pieces of paper and gave one to each officer, then we stood around the car holding the signs so every time he turned his head, he saw them. He refused, we dragged him out through the window and off to the hospital for the blood draw we went.
                            Originally posted by K40
                            To me, open carry is the equivalent of the couple making out and groping each other at the food court in the mall. Yeah, they are probably legal, as long as they don't start getting undressed. But they are still social retards.
                            ‎"You go for a man hard enough and fast enough, he don't have time to think about how many's with him; he thinks about himself, and how he might get clear of that wrath that's about to set down on him." - Rooster Cogburn

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by J_Mann View Post
                              These guys are dangerous. They usually tote around their rifles and shotguns with them and "defend" themselves if we stop them. They're all over my area.
                              From the posts made whenever there is a topic relating to the Second Amendment, I suspect that many of them visit here.
                              Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
                              Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

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