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Case Law Help...arrest Warrants

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  • sibpd893tf
    replied
    you sure?

    Originally posted by Smurfette_76 View Post
    There's nothing saying you can't handcuff to detain as you have RS or PC that a warrant exists. If its not valid, release him and everyone goes on about their way.
    Actually there is case law out there addressing using handcuffs on someone that is not an immediate threat; ie armed or actively resisting. I'll go even further on this issue: On a traffic stop you decide you are going to run a warrant check on the driver, do you routinely remove the driver, handcuff them and then continue with the check? A warrant is not valid unless it is confirmed by the entering agency!

    Leave a comment:


  • PABear31
    replied
    It's not case law but the "Rules for Criminal Procedure" that you need to check. The rule that allows you to serve a warrant without actually having the warrant in hand only applies to warrants issued in court cases. The problem that you are having is because the warrants are being issued to the Sheriff's office. Since they aren't staffed 24/7 they can't enter the warrants in CLEAN or NCIC because there isn't any one available to confirm the warrants on a 24 hour basis. My county solved this by having the warrants entered under the DA's ORI which is held on the local PSP terminal. In Northhampton Co it's probably either the Belfast barracks or the City of Easton that holds the DA's ORI.
    Last edited by PABear31; 10-27-2009, 03:19 PM. Reason: spelling

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  • PeteBroccolo
    replied
    The biggest problem I was having several years ago was with warrants held by 2 of the big Municipal PS up here, in that their CPIC operators were asking us to cuff, stuff & transport when it was obvious that the matters were such that the "client" would be subject to release, without or even with cash bail and other conditions that we could set, either roadside or before a JP. I would then ask to speak directly to the watch commander to discuss this and we would agree to release conditions.

    These situations have since improved - partly this was due to the operators not checking with the commander at all, or the commander not having reviewed their file sufficiently, or that it was their Agency's policy to only release before the watch commander / officer in charge, while I and my partners were our own de facto commander / o ic given that we were almost always working alone. That, plus many times "clients" were most likely NOT going to see the inside of a jail upon conviction anyways!

    Leave a comment:


  • AZDPSDic
    replied
    Here is some case law

    http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data2/...th/033427p.pdf

    http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data2/...h/0610795p.pdf

    Leave a comment:


  • G-MAN
    replied
    Smurfette,

    That's what I do almost always.....I tell them they are not under arrest but just being detained and hooked up for everyone's safety. I tell them if everything checks out the handcuffs will come off.

    G-man
    1*

    Leave a comment:


  • Smurfette_76
    replied
    There's nothing saying you can't handcuff to detain as you have RS or PC that a warrant exists. If its not valid, release him and everyone goes on about their way.

    Leave a comment:


  • 11b101abn
    replied
    FWIW, we detain pending confirmatiion when we get a hit. Once radio confirms, it's an arrest.

    I dont know if waiting to confirm and then arresting is a good idea. The BG in all likelyhood already knows that he has paper and what it's for. I would recommend getting control as soon as you can to minimize risk.

    Leave a comment:


  • mdrdep
    replied
    From the CAli Penal Code

    842. An arrest by a peace officer acting under a warrant is lawful
    even though the officer does not have the warrant in his possession
    at the time of the arrest, but if the person arrested so requests it,
    the warrant shall be shown to him as soon as practicable.


    850. (a) A telegraphic copy of a warrant or an abstract of a
    warrant may be sent by telegraph, teletype, or any other electronic
    devices, to one or more peace officers, and such copy or abstract is
    as effectual in the hands of any officer, and he shall proceed in the
    same manner under it, as though he held the original warrant issued
    by a magistrate or the issuing authority or agency.

    Leave a comment:


  • G-MAN
    replied
    Thanks guys, especially those who took the time to find the court cases....after reading them all it is starting to come together.

    I have con-ed in a few weeks at the academy and I will ask our law instructor.

    G-man
    1*

    Leave a comment:


  • t150vsuptpr
    replied
    Originally posted by Smurfette_76 View Post
    What would you guys do if that was a murder warrant or child molestation warrant?
    When my dispatcher calls me back and tells me that no confirmation is recieved within the required time period, it's "adios". I'll have by then already noted all descriptors I can of persons or vehicle and any details picked up in conversation.

    When I first got the hit, my dispatcher contacted the originating department who entered the want. It is expected that they can lay their hands on any warrant and confirm same within a reasonable time frame.

    If not, it's reasonable to believe it's been withdrawn or already served.

    In any case, a failure to be able to confirm a warrant within a reasonable time is a short coming of the originating agency, not I.

    We have a specific time line and we've seen guys sued, and loose.

    When I get a warrant, there are specific time requirements within which I am required to enter the person into V?CIN and / or NCIC, it's some different for felonies and misdemeanors. I also fax a copy to my dispatcher and I place my original in a warrant file at the office immediately so that it may be retrieved by someone if needed and I am off on a road trip 2500 miles away. If I have an entry, the original is in the book. If no one can come to the office and retrieve it within the needed time, I expect the agency or other officer requesting the confirmation will likewise, let them go. We will divert a man from a wreck call to go lay hands on that warrant and call someone out to work the wreck if need be.

    As others said, yes, I can arrest on a wanted entry provided my dispatcher tells me the hit is confirmed. I'll get a copy to execute while at the jail / magistrate.
    Last edited by t150vsuptpr; 10-21-2009, 09:13 PM.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    I love case law quizzes...I'm working on this one for ya G-Man...This is all I've found so far:

    Miller v. Prince George's County
    http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data2/...th/052250p.pdf

    More about how a "bad" arrest warrant was still a "good" arrest on the part of the officer...but we're in the right direction.

    Synopsis: Detective does a shoddy investigation and gets arrest warrant for suspect. Trooper stops car and figures out dude has warrant. Arrests said dude. Trooper did no wrong in arresting based on the warrant.

    I realize it's not quite what you're looking for....but give me some time

    Leave a comment:


  • dungeonmike
    replied
    Hawaii we usually get the hard copy confirmed within 15 minutes. However, if we are not doing something, i.e. writing citations while waiting for the confirmation, and we find something (drugs) when we take them in the prosecutor dumps the case because it took too long to get the confirmation.

    Leave a comment:


  • westside popo
    replied
    Originally posted by G-MAN View Post
    Can't seem to find the actual case law pertaining to Arrest warrants and detaining/arresting those who come back from dispatch as having an active warrant.

    In other words, you identify a person and verify with dispatch or MDT that the person is wanted on an arrest warrant and you then arrest said person without actually having the paper warrant in your possession, this acting on good faith that their is a verified and actual warrant for the person.

    I remember seeing it and being taught it but I can't find the actual law it pertains to....I am in PA if there is anything specific according to my state.

    I was asked this the other day by someone and I was unable to point them to a specific case law.

    Thanks,

    G-man
    1*
    Try the following:
    ARIZONA V. EVANS
    United States v. Leon
    United States v. Hensley
    Use these to help you find specific cases for your state.
    Last edited by westside popo; 10-20-2009, 02:17 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • PtlCop
    replied
    Originally posted by Name Taken View Post
    Thecase they probably got you on is Ill. V Caballes which basically says according to my information that the drug scan is okay as long as it's conducted during the normal course of a legal stop. If you have RAS or consent you can prolong the stop to wait for the dog.

    As for the case law pertaining to the extended duration of the stop due to K9 being lost I can not find it. I recently went to a Search and Seizure Seminar and recall I believe it was our ASA stating a recent case (like within a few weeks) where the stop was over however the K9 got lost on his way to the stop.

    It's my understanding that you need to be preppered to defend this action and your account better match up to the K9's account as to him getting lost.

    They (the courts) have said that the scan needs to be done prior to the stop being over and you can not legally extend the stop for this. My stops range from anywhere from 15-40 minutes depending...so I dont think you could call my bluff using averages as there really isnt an average traffic stop.

    I would not use the case I'm thinking of to say it's okay to prolong the stop. However if the dog gets lost or something of that sort it MIGHT prevent the case from being tossed. At the end of the day the court isnt likely to buy into this arguement on a regular basis.

    And obviously when stuff does get to court it's up in the air. We have a judge who has openly stated (in open court) that she does not believe in consent searches and tosses everyone out.

    That was the issue. My stops would sometimes be over in 3 minutes (if i just gave a verbal warning) or 45 minutes if it was an arrest/consent to search, etc. The courts cared NOTHING about those. They took each stop, took the time on the stop, added them together then took the average right down from it.

    Sure, the 45 minute stop as compared to the 3 minute stop gave me an average stop time of 24 minutes for those stops, but the average at the end of the day ended up being about 9 minutes.


    As to the judge, every single one of my cases that she overturned because she doesn't believe in consent searches would be appealed to a higher court. It's not her job to input her personal opinion into the case, it's her job to apply the law as written or as previously ruled. I took 240 lbs of Marijuana out of a Semi on a consent search one night, found a one hitter in the cab and right after he said "ok, i don't want you searching anymore," at which point I had the probable cause to continue and located a false wall and found the drugs. I'll be damned if that judge had thrown the case because the driver consented and some judge doesn't "believe" in consent searches.

    That'd drive me insane.

    Leave a comment:


  • westside popo
    replied
    Originally posted by G-MAN View Post
    Can't seem to find the actual case law pertaining to Arrest warrants and detaining/arresting those who come back from dispatch as having an active warrant.

    In other words, you identify a person and verify with dispatch or MDT that the person is wanted on an arrest warrant and you then arrest said person without actually having the paper warrant in your possession, this acting on good faith that their is a verified and actual warrant for the person.

    I remember seeing it and being taught it but I can't find the actual law it pertains to....I am in PA if there is anything specific according to my state.

    I was asked this the other day by someone and I was unable to point them to a specific case law.

    Thanks,

    G-man
    1*
    If memory serves me this practice evolved from several court decisions but I can't remember their style. It may take me some time to find them but when I do I will get back with you.
    In GA (as per GCIC / NCIC) there are two hit confirmation requests. Urgent and Routine. Urgent requires a confirmation, by the entering agency, in 10 minutes. Routine requires a hit confirmation within an hour. If you don't get a hit with in 10 minutes you send another urgent hit comfirmation. If you still do not get a hit confirmation then a third one will be sent along with a nasty message sent to GCIC / NCIC for non-compliance.

    Leave a comment:

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