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  • SRT Question.

    ..................
    Last edited by fordman318; 03-29-2010, 12:41 AM.

  • #2
    ..........
    Last edited by fordman318; 03-29-2010, 12:41 AM.

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    • #3
      I wouldn't shoot and would relay my observation(s) back to the TL. The subject as described is not placing anyone's life in danger nor is he attempting to escape after doing so. Again... this is based simply off what you have detailed in your original posting.
      sigpic

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      • #4
        I would not shoot until I felt or observed a threat. Even if he had shot the hostage and was coming out, unless he posed further threat I would go into felony apprehension procedures if I wasn't sure who the hostage was. If the team leader sees something that warrants deadly force, then if he sees it HE needs to react with deadly force. I'll pull someone over if another deputy says over the radio because I'm in front to light a certain vehicle up, but I'm not shooting someone that is not posing a threat that I can see just because someone told me to. I wouldn't care if it was the sheriff. Unless he killed the hostage, and is attempting to flee the house I'd order him to stop and if not I'd shoot. If he trys to get away I can articulate the threat he poses to the immediate public ie....grabbing another hostage, but if he is coming out appearing to give up, I definately would not shoot just because the teamleader said so.
        Last edited by creolecop; 10-07-2009, 09:16 PM.
        Ignored: Towncop, Pulicords, TacoMac, Ten08

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        • #5
          No threat, no shoot. Your agency has an ROE for SWAT ops.

          And don't forget to do the SWAT roll!
          Free Deke O'Mally!!!

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          • #6
            swat roll, I loved that (could not do it, but love it all the same) also, don't forget sniper poker.

            As stated earlier, relay the information to the OIC and follow your UOF procedures. They might suspend him for the command but your a** would go to jail for a unwarranted or unjustified OIS. Just my thoughts. Off to the back yard to practice my roll.

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            • #7
              If your on a BP and the suspect comes out, you should have a react team in place with less lethal and lethal cover to make sure he doesn't get back in the house. If he is unarmed then hit him with the 40mm, if armed them eliminate the threat.

              If the susp if going to be eliminated under the conditions CREOLEO stated, it will usually done by a sniper and its usually pre-planned. The guy is bought and paid for!
              Strong Body, Sharp Mind And Good Tactics!

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              • #8
                ................
                Last edited by fordman318; 03-29-2010, 12:41 AM.

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                • #9
                  What kind of undies is he wearing?

                  M-11
                  “All men dream...... But not equally..
                  Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it is vanity;
                  but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men,
                  for they act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible.....”

                  TE Lawrence

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                  • #10
                    You've laid out two separate situations, barricade vs hostage. With a hostage depending on all the known information shoot, maybe. Barricade no threat no shoot. Our team members were always guided by the rules that applied in any other shoot or no shoot situation.

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                    • #11
                      The justification for use of deadly force is yours and yours alone. No one tells me when to shoot or not shoot someone, that's my decision to make.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by KSM View Post
                        The justification for use of deadly force is yours and yours alone. No one tells me when to shoot or not shoot someone, that's my decision to make.
                        Then you wouldn't last long on a SWAT team. Snipers are ordered to take a shot based on the team commanders instructions all the time.

                        There's no right or wrong answer here. The question is asked to see how your thought process works.
                        Originally posted by K40
                        To me, open carry is the equivalent of the couple making out and groping each other at the food court in the mall. Yeah, they are probably legal, as long as they don't start getting undressed. But they are still social retards.
                        ‎"You go for a man hard enough and fast enough, he don't have time to think about how many's with him; he thinks about himself, and how he might get clear of that wrath that's about to set down on him." - Rooster Cogburn

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by PtlCop View Post
                          Snipers are ordered to take a shot based on the team commanders instructions all the time.
                          Point taken, and I agree, maybe I was a little too "black and white" in my response and didn't explain myself. My point was that at the end of the day, you have to justify why you shot someone, and a simple, "XYZ told me to" probably won't cut it.

                          A sniper taking a pre-planned shot is a different situation than what the original poster stated, but I see what you're getting at.
                          Last edited by KSM; 10-09-2009, 05:35 AM.

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                          • #14
                            1) If the guy isnt placing anyones life in danger you dont shoot him with a firearm.
                            2) On top of that the team leader didnt specify what to shoot and probabily sees something you cant. The 'subject' you see in only underpants could be the hostage.
                            So imo the best answer is not to shoot.

                            Its a question that needs more elements to give a good answer.
                            Last edited by DeputySC; 10-09-2009, 07:36 AM.

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                            • #15
                              This is an interesting question...

                              My state law requires the shooter to reasonably believe, at the time of the shot, an imminent threat of death/serious injury to himself or a third party exists.

                              So how exactly does this work with snipers who shoot only because of the "green light," as PtlCop brought up, or even in the given scenario? Or is that just Hollywood SWAT? (I'm not that high speed!)

                              EDIT - ehh I guess our "fleeing felon" portion covers this. But in the given scenario, I wouldn't feel comfortable shooting without knowing a little bit more about the situation. I imagine a sniper would be briefed on his target, what the crime was, a description, etc.
                              Last edited by Resq14; 10-09-2009, 10:22 AM.
                              All Gave Some - Some Gave All

                              {"data-align":"none","data-size":"custom","data-tempid":"temp_14312_1475388990098_890","height":"65","title":"flower.gif","width":"72"}

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