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  • #16
    Due to the consent decree, they've strong armed some females to take several coveted or promotional exams. The consent decree has forced several specialized units to promote many females that are not qualified just to comply with the 25% mandate. I feel it is reverse discrimination and actually causes more problems within the dept. Like LADEP said, we are 10,000+ sworn and don't even have 25% females on the job, but are required to have 25% in specialized units. Needless to say, it's a good time to be a female in our dept.
    Last edited by Five-0fromSoCal; 09-20-2009, 05:31 AM.

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    • #17
      Thanks to everybody. I woke up this morning and had several more PMs about this.

      NOTHING from the women on here....irony irony irony

      Come ON, Ladies!
      sigpic

      I don't agree with your opinion, but I respect its straightforwardness in terms of wrongness.

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      • #18
        PM sent (from a female!)

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        • #19
          I'll give you a response of a different color.................Inside the walls


          I am a male with 32 plus years of LEO/Corrections experience.
          I am a Lieutenant/Shift Supervisor .
          We are a 4000 member department including both Uniformed and Civilian staff.
          My unit (institution) has 425 staff


          We too have had a lawsuit concerning sex discrimination. (As a side note I did work with the plaintiff during the time this lawsuit was at the district court level. http://openjurist.org/612/f2d/1079

          We have (department wide) numerous female supervisors, presently have in my unit a female associate warden, numerous female wardens department wide, currently have two Deputy Directors who are female and have had a governor appointed female Director of Corrections

          When I started in Corrections we had two female officers in my unit (1976), one of them was the litigant in the above cited case, I left Corrections in 1978 for Law Enforcement and came back in 1984 when I returned we had probably 20-25 percent female officers. It is now probably close to 35%. There is no doubt in my mind that I observed discrimination.

          Even today, I see staff who I can tell don't think females belong inside the walls. We don't see overt measures against females because of the history of the lawsuit, but I have notice (and acted against ) passive aggressive behavior aimed at some of our female staff.

          Many older male staff do feel females are not strong enough to be considered good backup in the cell block.

          I guess I can say I have seen great strides in the matter of gender equalization --------------but also see room for improvement.
          My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

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          • #20
            Thanks, Butterbars...you're my only corrections thus far.
            sigpic

            I don't agree with your opinion, but I respect its straightforwardness in terms of wrongness.

            Comment


            • #21
              Let me think about where to begin.

              I work for a relatively small department. I'm not going to give the exact number of officers, but suffice it to say we are between 50-75 officers, and not all of them on the street.

              Besides myself, there are three other female officers who work the street at my department. One is a Sgt.

              One other female at the department is in a school resource officer/administrative type position (from what I gather, I've never met her), but from the way everyone talks about her, she is never on the street. A woman Lt. is in charge of CID, and a woman Lt. is in charge of Support Services.


              By and large my department is big on education and training. They like to hire people with degrees, and they also like to hire women where possible.

              There are various individuals within the department who have already pulled me aside to tell me to start setting goals and figuring out where I want to go-because they told me I can make it far with this department.

              Of the three other females on the street, I know two of them definitely have street cred. I don't know the third one because she works the opposite shift from me, so I haven't seen her in action.

              I am sure there is some concern about women not being strong enough, and I'm sure my size has raised some eyebrows. At 5'4'' and about 128lbs, I am the smallest one at the department. I am well aware that someone could pick me up and throw me if they truly wanted to (but that's why I wear all those cool toys around my waist! ). That aside, I think I bring other factors to the table, for instance, I am intelligent, I have a very level head, and I maintain objectivity. I could go on, but I'll leave it at that.

              I think more than anything the guys worry about saying something and offending me (fat chance, btw), rather than worrying about me holding my own out there.

              I am doing the best I can to build a good rapport with all my fellow officers, backing them up on calls where possible, helping with gathering info and getting things sorted out when it is complicated. I know I'm small, but I'm bringing variables to the table that I believe make me an asset, and someone you want next to you on the street.

              I realize sometimes it will come down to a physical fight. I get it. That being said, I'll be damned if I'm not going to try to resolve it otherwise. Clearly my department backs me up on this, or they wouldn't have hired me.

              In your OPINION and EXPERIENCE, do you agree with the survey conducted by the IACP? How do you think the gender issues can be resolved or do you think they should be?

              I don't think there's anything to "resolve" per se. Every officer brings different traits and talents to the table. Some men are really strong and fast and fit. Some women also are. Some officers are on the complete other end of the fitness spectrum. (That's a discussion for another thread). Physical ability isn't the ONLY part of this job that is important. True, physical health and wellness should be a big factor, but you can't put a measure on it other than to say that people should be able to pass at least some basic physical measure (ie: our annual fitness test).

              I think I'm getting away from the point I was trying to make. The point is that I am not sure a LOT of headway has been made in ten years, but I think it is getting better. The more women get involved in this profession, the more we prove ourselves, and more exposure we get, the greater the acceptance factor. Some agencies are more progressive than others, while I'm sure some are still in the stone ages. I would also throw in the geographical factor which probably influences female participation in some areas of the country. Some of these good old boy areas don't want anything to do with females on the street.

              In my county, for instance, the sheriff won't even hire female deputies to work the road. It just goes to show, the police department is fairly progressive and moving with the times, but the S.O. still has very different beliefs.
              Last edited by Presence 1*; 09-20-2009, 09:30 PM.

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              • #22
                Well I am new to LE so we'll see how this helps you....

                1 1/2 years on with the County Female and on Patrol for now...lol

                Of course woman are looked at differently and I knew that from day one of going into this job...do I let it effect me? H*** no! Every person has something that they have to get past and prove themselves on this job...some people are fatter or shorter or not muscle enough or a combination of things. My department has a total of 8 female deputies out of roughly 200...not a huge department...We have one LT, one is a court officer now but had been on the road, one is a det, 1 has been on the road for 11 years, one has been on for approximately 5, and me and two others started together....we vary in size physical strength and minds.....but we have all done what we needed to to prove we belong here and since I have been on I have seen the guys, who are now some of my closest friends, hassle and push the new guys just as much as they did to me. Of course sometimes dirty sexual or inappropriate things may be said, but i just thing its a cop thing not a guy thing lol and for the fact that they joke with me the same as the next guy made me realize i was finally part of the team. Here people are promoted for ability and who you rub elbows with best (its not perfect)....but never because of gender

                Some of the funniest things ever said is when I, or one of the other females for that matter, go to a call and some subjects states that they either can't or wont talk to me because i am female....they get lippy and i just laugh and the guys pull them aside and explain that i know some crazy jujitsu or something and how they've seen me take down guys bigger and badder...they always look at me in total amazement, I'm 5'1 and 130lbs lol.

                During FTO i was riding with one of the guys that I'm closest to and he looked me straight in the eye and told me he would take me right now with the training i had to any call to back him up no question....got me a llittle teary eyed lol (they called me the **** magnet cuz i always got some crazy calls!)

                I love that I have a ton of guys that are out there every day backing me up and more importantly trusting me to back them up.

                The only downfall I find is that I've always been good hanging with the guys and have a no dating coworkers policy....unfortunately sometimes they thing its a challenge to see if i will break it and wives aren't always so friendly....but i do my best


                wow really didn't mean for that to be so long lol
                " the only man who never makes a mistake is the man who never does anything." -Theodore Roosevelt

                "Smart is when you believe only half of what you hear. Brilliant is when you know which half to believe." -Orben's Current Comedy

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                • #23
                  Get Real

                  In order to honestly evaluate what you are asking about, you have to remove the other variables.

                  Women as a general rule are smaller than men. When a small thin guy shows up from the academy, there is an unspoken concern "Can this guy save my bacon if I need help?"

                  A male that is 5'5" tall and 125 pounds has more of a burden to prove his ability than male that is 6'3" tall and 200 pounds.

                  When a certain female officer showed up at our agency and weighed in under 100 pounds (yes, really true), was the unspoken concern because she was female or because it was unrealistic to expect her to perform physical combat at a level that made her coworkers comfortable?

                  I spent a lot of time working with a 5'8" slender female officer. I would rather have her with me in a fight than any two average male officers in my department. She is not unattractive.

                  When she hit the street, the other officers expected less of her than a male officer. She absolutely proved them wrong. But how much of that was gender and how much was size and deportment?

                  If you really read between the lines of the "research" you will find most of it is done from the stand point of someone with an agenda to prove.

                  In the beginning everyone is judged based on perceived ability. In police work, does that favor men over women, yes a little. In the end, almost every officer gets judged on their actual performance.

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                  • #24
                    PM just sent.

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                    • #25
                      Thanks again for all the responses. I 'preciate your assistance in this little study.
                      sigpic

                      I don't agree with your opinion, but I respect its straightforwardness in terms of wrongness.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        I'll send you a PM or several as I'm sure I'll exceed the character limit.
                        This profession is not for people looking for positive reinforcement from the public. Very often it can be a thankless job and you can't desire accolades, because those are not usually forthcoming. Just do your job to the best of your ability and live with the decisions you've made.

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                        • #27
                          As a female prosecutor, I find that my gender serves as a double edged sword, both in respect to my performance and to my career.

                          I am in a combative role, facing down defendants, defense attorneys (and often detectives) in direct opposition to the traditional female indoctrination of "being nice" and "getting along". If I raise my voice, juries see me as shrill-- if I speak softly, they see me as weak; If I go after a defense witness, I'm a bitch-- but if I do not, I am ineffective; If I wear a figure-shrouding pantsuit, I am a closet lesbian-- If I wear a skirt suit that fits, I am using my figure to get ahead. ]

                          But somehow, female prosecutors just like me seem to make it work every day. Some of the finest prosecutors out there are women. The new US Attorney for Atlanta, Sally Quillian Yates, is one of the best I have ever seen. And she only had to carry the books of TWO male USAO's (both of whom were less experienced) in order to gain consideration for the job.

                          As much as I initially struggled with establishing credibility with the police, I know now that my demonstrated good sense and respectful demeanor have gotten me alot more mileage with the police than my male colleagues. And I can get witnesses to spill their guts, especially the children and female victims, where my male counterparts cannot.

                          But I am 5'2", weigh 125 lbs, my voice squeaks rather than booms and, while I may exude intelligence and good sense in front of a jury, I will never have the presence or ability to convey drama in the way needed to be lead counsel on a murder or rape case. I will stay in financial crime or narcotics or forfeitures and I will never run for my boss's job. Some female prosecutors go for the top slot, but most strive for middle management. Because fighting the bad guys is one thing, but fighting the system and the politics and the newspapers (and in my jurisdiction's case, the sheriff's deputies) is too much.

                          The legal profession in general historically gives women short shrift (if you'd like some articles on that, let me know and I'll dig em up for ya) and, while government work in general is easier on women, litigation of any sort is wont to burn anyone out, especially anyone who wants more out of life than a 24-7 job.

                          I am tired and rambling. Please let me know if I can provide any more targeted feedback...

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by nolo View Post
                            As a female prosecutor, I find that my gender serves as a double edged sword, both in respect to my performance and to my career.

                            I am in a combative role, facing down defendants, defense attorneys (and often detectives) in direct opposition to the traditional female indoctrination of "being nice" and "getting along". If I raise my voice, juries see me as shrill-- if I speak softly, they see me as weak; If I go after a defense witness, I'm a bitch-- but if I do not, I am ineffective; If I wear a figure-shrouding pantsuit, I am a closet lesbian-- If I wear a skirt suit that fits, I am using my figure to get ahead. ]

                            Hmmmmmmmmmm... Two questions come to mind (sorry Smurf)

                            1) Do you like Harley's?
                            2) Are you a redhead?

                            But somehow, female prosecutors just like me seem to make it work every day. Some of the finest prosecutors out there are women. The new US Attorney for Atlanta, Sally Quillian Yates, is one of the best I have ever seen. And she only had to carry the books of TWO male USAO's (both of whom were less experienced) in order to gain consideration for the job.

                            As much as I initially struggled with establishing credibility with the police, I know now that my demonstrated good sense and respectful demeanor have gotten me alot more mileage with the police than my male colleagues. And I can get witnesses to spill their guts, especially the children and female victims, where my male counterparts cannot.

                            But I am 5'2", weigh 125 lbs, my voice squeaks rather than booms and, while I may exude intelligence and good sense in front of a jury, I will never have the presence or ability to convey drama in the way needed to be lead counsel on a murder or rape case. I will stay in financial crime or narcotics or forfeitures and I will never run for my boss's job. Some female prosecutors go for the top slot, but most strive for middle management. Because fighting the bad guys is one thing, but fighting the system and the politics and the newspapers (and in my jurisdiction's case, the sheriff's deputies) is too much.

                            The legal profession in general historically gives women short shrift (if you'd like some articles on that, let me know and I'll dig em up for ya) and, while government work in general is easier on women, litigation of any sort is wont to burn anyone out, especially anyone who wants more out of life than a 24-7 job.

                            I am tired and rambling. Please let me know if I can provide any more targeted feedback...
                            Please continue, nothing further to see here

                            RKT
                            (Really Kind Trooper)
                            "a band is blowing Dixie double four time You feel alright when you hear the music ring"


                            The real deal

                            Outshined Pujulesfan Bearcat Chitowndet Sgt Slaughter jthorpe M-11 Lt Borelli L-1Sgt CHP Nikk Smurf Presence1 IcecoldblueyesKimble LADEP ateamer ChiCity R.A.B. Jenners IrishMetal GoldBadge willowdared Monkeybomb PhilipCal pullicords Chit2001 Garbageman Narco CruiserClass Fuzz 10-42Trooper Tex4720 irishlad2nv bajakirch OnThe gurmpyirishmanNYIlliniSgtScott31 CityCopDCcgh6366 FJDave

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                            • #29
                              Hey now, Really Kind Trooper... she ASKED me to give my point of view.

                              And I am not a redhead (nor do I play one on TV).

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by nolo View Post
                                Hey now, Really Kind Trooper... she ASKED me to give my point of view.

                                And I am not a redhead (nor do I play one on TV).
                                Oh my bad..........I somehow asked my question in the wrong place

                                So sorry NOLO
                                "a band is blowing Dixie double four time You feel alright when you hear the music ring"


                                The real deal

                                Outshined Pujulesfan Bearcat Chitowndet Sgt Slaughter jthorpe M-11 Lt Borelli L-1Sgt CHP Nikk Smurf Presence1 IcecoldblueyesKimble LADEP ateamer ChiCity R.A.B. Jenners IrishMetal GoldBadge willowdared Monkeybomb PhilipCal pullicords Chit2001 Garbageman Narco CruiserClass Fuzz 10-42Trooper Tex4720 irishlad2nv bajakirch OnThe gurmpyirishmanNYIlliniSgtScott31 CityCopDCcgh6366 FJDave

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