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  • Fatal police chase

    Well, we talk about alot on here. But we haven't talked about the pursuit in CA that killed all those folks. So my question is....Are you still a, "Chase em till the wheels fall off" kind of cop, or do you now think about it just a bit more before you chase? I know we will discuss policy and procedure, I get that. What I want to know is if it has changed YOUR thinking. Stay safe, 37D

  • #2
    Not sure which pursuit you're talking about. There have been pursuits in probably every single state that have killed folks, sometimes our fault but usually not.

    As far as does it change the thinking, it's always about risks vs. reward.

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    • #3
      I believe this is the one the OP is talking about:

      http://news.mobile.msn.com/en-us/vid...8-3a30dc85bb05

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      • #4
        it is sad that so many innocent victims lost their lives.

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        • #5
          I fear you have me confused with someone else with your generalized assertion. I don't believe I ever advocated chasing until the wheels fell off.

          For that matter. If you listen to the audio tape of the pursuit http://www.fresnobee.com/updates/story/1592864.html the first thing the officer did when the suspect took off is call for a helicopter (listen for the word "Eagle") to take over tracking the car.

          You may wish to re-think your assumptions about your fellow officers.
          Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

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          • #6
            Originally posted by L-1 View Post
            I fear you have me confused with someone else with your generalized assertion. I don't believe I ever advocated chasing until the wheels fell off.

            For that matter. If you listen to the audio tape of the pursuit http://www.fresnobee.com/updates/story/1592864.html the first thing the officer did when the suspect took off is call for a helicopter (listen for the word "Eagle") to take over tracking the car.

            You may wish to re-think your assumptions about your fellow officers.
            If you are talking to me, you may have read more into the original post than I wrote. I never assumed anything about the Officer involved. I was asking folks, cops, if this may have changed their mind about the way we chase. I am not armchair quarterbacking the Officers involved, no way...no how. I never said you were the person who said, "chase them till the wheels fell off". That is a term we use in my area for certain agencies that will chase anything. If I were talking about you, I would have posted your screen name and your quote. And you may need to re-think your assumptions about me. Stay safe, 37D

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            • #7
              For an infraction, no. I know people will say, "but he's running for some reason other than the speeding/stop light violation/etc." It's just not worth it. The danger to me and the public far outweighs whatever unknown there is, or isn't. If it's a guy i've seen or suspect to have committed a felony, yes..go after them with vigor and vigilance, being mindful still of the danger to yourself and the public.

              There are few crimes in this world worth pushing it to the point where the danger to the citizens outweighs the benefit or need to catch the badguy.
              Originally posted by K40
              To me, open carry is the equivalent of the couple making out and groping each other at the food court in the mall. Yeah, they are probably legal, as long as they don't start getting undressed. But they are still social retards.
              ‎"You go for a man hard enough and fast enough, he don't have time to think about how many's with him; he thinks about himself, and how he might get clear of that wrath that's about to set down on him." - Rooster Cogburn

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              • #8
                Don't think that too many agencies have a "Chase em till the wheells fall off" philosophy these days. If they do, they seriously need to re-think their policies. I'm retired from an agency which places much responsibility for the conduct of the chase on the involved Officer.That Trooper is guided by what I consider to be a well grounded agency policy. It essentially gives the concerned Trooper the option of discontinuing the chase, if in the Trooper's judgement, the "risk no longer justifies continuing the chase. While a supervisor also has the authority to terminate/discontinue a chase, he does not have the authority to overule a Trooper who elects to discontinue a chase.Pefect policy? No. I'm not going to take a position relative to Department's which severely limit or prohibit pursuits. I have an opinion, but that's for another time. What I feel we all have to remember,is that there's no such thing as a "risk free" pursuit. Remember what another colleague recently posted relative to the media. "If it bleeds, it leads" Pursuits are no exception.

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                • #9
                  It's very sad and an unfortunate reality about our job. No matter what why or who we pursue there will always be those who question our motives in carrying on with a chase. But, this is only one aspect of the whole thing. Just two weeks ago in my county one of our local deputies was responding to a call running code and "T' boned another vehicle that crossed in front of him. Killed the female driver in the collision when her car caught fire. He was injured but survived. People questioned the need for his speed in that incident. Again it is all very sad and my heart goes out all involved but, it's also the sad reality of the job. Just my thoughts.
                  sigpic
                  Formerly Username k91376
                  " They Took the BAR!! The whole F%$#ING BAR! "

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by PtlCop View Post
                    There are few crimes in this world worth pushing it to the point where the danger to the citizens outweighs the benefit or need to catch the badguy.
                    A very valid point. But, let's be honest with one another. When drivers run, we chase. The faster they go, the more determined we are to catch. The longer it last, the more ****ed we get...'that SOB aint getting away from me' mode kicks in quickly. We've all been there and it's a tough call. Most of the major chases are played on tv by the leach-media as if it were a video game. These are different times regarding fast police pursuits and I'm not sure the correct policy can be written. Nothing is normal in the business of catching criminals. It's kind of like writing the rule no helmet to helmet contract allowed in football, due to the potential life threatening injury that may occur. But it happens. It's an unfortunate part of the game. Police chases are an unfortunate part of catching criminals. Sometimes we injury one another. My cruiser was totaled when a wagon cut in front of us causing us to go LOC and hit a large utility truck. Fortunately only our pride was hurt. It happens. I really don't know what is the correct answer. Chase or don't chase. Or at what point is it proper to call it off?
                    The views/opinions expressed here are solely mine. I'm retired and I don't care. I truly do not want to offend anyone, but if you are thin skinned and have no sense of humor, you better find another line of work. Therefore, I don't have to be politically correct and I will exercise my freedom of speech, until it's taken away. May God bless all retirees. We've done our duty and earned our peace.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by 37delta View Post
                      If you are talking to me, you may have read more into the original post than I wrote.
                      No, I think I understood your question fairly well. You post was

                      Well, we talk about alot on here. But we haven't talked about the pursuit in CA that killed all those folks. So my question is....Are you still a, "Chase em till the wheels fall off" kind of cop, or do you now think about it just a bit more before you chase? I know we will discuss policy and procedure, I get that. What I want to know is if it has changed YOUR thinking. Stay safe, 37D

                      The generally broad wording of your post suggested that all of us here have publicly stated that we would chase something until it's wheels fell off (which is not true) and now that multiple people had been killed you were wondering if we had reconsidered our reckless attitudes.

                      Your statement peresumed facts not in evidence and paiting all of us in such broad strokes was insulting.

                      The officer who initiated the putsuit in question immediately called for a helicopter so he he could terminate the chase. This challenged the whole premise of your question (chase till the wheels fell off), making me wonder what prompted you to ask such a question in the first place.
                      Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

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                      • #12
                        And I know an officer who terminated a pursuit when the suspect's driving became too dangerous. The suspect, however, continued driving recklessly and killed the driver of another car. Would that have been avoided had the officer's lights and sirens alerted the third-party driver to a danger of which he is unaware?

                        And if you announce a policy that says "will will never chase you if you endanger others" will that encourage more reckless driving by suspects?

                        There are many factors to balance. I don't know anyone who advocates a policy of "Chase em till the wheels fall off." It is impossible to create a "formula" that provides a definitive answer to the question of when to initiate or terminate a pursuit.
                        Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
                        Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

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                        • #13
                          wow great post, although I think the bad guy will slow down if he believes he has evaded the police.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DAL View Post
                            And I know an officer who terminated a pursuit when the suspect's driving became too dangerous. The suspect, however, continued driving recklessly and killed the driver of another car. Would that have been avoided had the officer's lights and sirens alerted the third-party driver to a danger of which he is unaware?

                            And if you announce a policy that says "will will never chase you if you endanger others" will that encourage more reckless driving by suspects?

                            There are many factors to balance. I don't know anyone who advocates a policy of "Chase em till the wheels fall off." It is impossible to create a "formula" that provides a definitive answer to the question of when to initiate or terminate a pursuit.
                            Who knows, could be. Can't look at it like that though. We all know that nobody sees our lights anyway, and our siren is only good as a warning to other drivers when we're going about 50 mph and slower. I'm sure the officer has second guessed himself on that over and over and over again though, I know I would.

                            I think not only would a "never pursue" policy encourage more reckless driving, but it would also be counter to our jobs as police officers. If we could attempt a traffic stop and the driver knows that all he has to do to avoid a ticket is speed up and the officer can't do anything...well that just won't fly.

                            I think that any agency who allows their officers to pursue for ONLY a traffic infraction needs to reevaluate their policies. Issuing a ticket for running a red light or speeding is NOT worth the danger to me to initiate a high speed pursuit. If it's a misdemeanor or felony, ok...lets go after them until that moment when we realize that we're posing more danger and the risks outweigh the rewards.
                            Originally posted by K40
                            To me, open carry is the equivalent of the couple making out and groping each other at the food court in the mall. Yeah, they are probably legal, as long as they don't start getting undressed. But they are still social retards.
                            ‎"You go for a man hard enough and fast enough, he don't have time to think about how many's with him; he thinks about himself, and how he might get clear of that wrath that's about to set down on him." - Rooster Cogburn

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                            • #15
                              I say chase em until they are caught. Oh well if you don't like it.

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