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Video - Officer suspended after punching teen in face

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  • #16
    Originally posted by PtlCop View Post
    Sorry, you don't get to punch handcuffed people for spitting on you. Sure, turn their face, hold their face away from you, put a spit hood on them, pull their shirt up, charge them more...but you can't strike them.

    First off, I think there are few worse insults than to spit on somebody, but we're supposed to be able to handle ourselves professionally, even in the face of grave insult. We've all had days where emotion gets in the way of our brain and we make stupid or foolish choices, lets hope that's what this was.

    Secondly, yes, it is assault or battery or whatever you call it to spit on somebody. That's not at issue here, nobody is saying it's not illegal. The department was saying that his response to it was not reasonable given the circumstances. He could have done any of the aforementioned things, rather than striking the kid. I'm sure giving the kid a righteous beatdown is what he WANTED to do, and i'm sure the kid dserved it, but not while handcuffed.

    Third, there's a difference between a handcuffed guy spitting on you, and a handcuffed guy kicking, headbutting, etc. I can see how the department finds that striking a handcuffed suspect is unreasonable and excessive.

    Absolutely foolish move on the Sgt's part, hopefully he'll retain his stripes and be better for the experience.
    Ahhhhhhhhhhh Negative! That POS Should and needs to be dealt with accordingly! Handling people with soft gloves just makes it worse for the next officer this guy deals with. It doesn't get worse then getting your face spit on.
    Strong Body, Sharp Mind And Good Tactics!

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Rush817 View Post
      Ahhhhhhhhhhh Negative! That POS Should and needs to be dealt with accordingly! Handling people with soft gloves just makes it worse for the next officer this guy deals with. It doesn't get worse then getting your face spit on.
      Wrong.

      It's not our job to deliver beat downs to "teach lessons" to people. Our job is to make the arrest, charge them accordingly and allow the courts to deliver the lessons through punishment. We may not like how the courts deliver their punishments, but that doesn't make it ok to punch people in custody for something that we can deal with more reasonably. Our job is to use the most reasonable amount of force to affect an arrest and keep ourselves safe. Punching a person, in handcuffs, for spitting on us isn't the most reasonable amount of force. As stated before, putting a spit hood on, pulling the shirt over the head, etc are the most reasonable.

      The Sgt. here will be absolutely lucky if he's not sued, and if he is...he'll lose big.

      It's understandable to me that people want to thump on somebody for spitting on them. If you can't hold your temper in the face of being spit on by a person in custody, you should probably find a new job.
      Originally posted by K40
      To me, open carry is the equivalent of the couple making out and groping each other at the food court in the mall. Yeah, they are probably legal, as long as they don't start getting undressed. But they are still social retards.
      ‎"You go for a man hard enough and fast enough, he don't have time to think about how many's with him; he thinks about himself, and how he might get clear of that wrath that's about to set down on him." - Rooster Cogburn

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      • #18
        Originally posted by FJcop
        you seem to really like that line....i've seen you use it in several posts...

        and handcuffed subjects can still be a threat btw
        Believe me, I understand that handcuffed subjects can still be a threat. But our job is to deal with the problem as reasonably as possible. If the Sgt. had pulled the shirt over the suspects head, problem solved. Add the felony charge for battery by bodily waste and be done with it.

        If the kid was kicking him, headbutting him, etc...then a bit more force would obviously be required to restrain him until hogties or a similar restraint could be applied.

        Spitting on somebody, to me, doesn't rise to the level of punching somebody repeatedly. Sure i'd LIKE to, but i'd also like to PIT people who drive slowly in front of me...that wouldn't be a reasonable response though.

        I've got no issue using force where force is required to affect an arrest. I do have an issue with using for to 'teach lessons." As that starts to blur the line between us and them.
        Last edited by PtlCop; 08-14-2009, 05:51 PM.
        Originally posted by K40
        To me, open carry is the equivalent of the couple making out and groping each other at the food court in the mall. Yeah, they are probably legal, as long as they don't start getting undressed. But they are still social retards.
        ‎"You go for a man hard enough and fast enough, he don't have time to think about how many's with him; he thinks about himself, and how he might get clear of that wrath that's about to set down on him." - Rooster Cogburn

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        • #19
          Originally posted by FJcop
          you seem to really like that line....i've seen you use it in several posts...

          and handcuffed subjects can still be a threat btw
          By the way, your avatar looks PAINFUL!
          Originally posted by K40
          To me, open carry is the equivalent of the couple making out and groping each other at the food court in the mall. Yeah, they are probably legal, as long as they don't start getting undressed. But they are still social retards.
          ‎"You go for a man hard enough and fast enough, he don't have time to think about how many's with him; he thinks about himself, and how he might get clear of that wrath that's about to set down on him." - Rooster Cogburn

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          • #20
            a little hot sauce would have been a good option there..=-)

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            • #21
              Whether we like it or not, "Ptlcop" is absolutely correct in they way this should be handled. Spitting is considered insulting in nature, it is not bodily harm. That said, you would be hard pressed to convince a judge or jury that you were justified in striking a handcuffed person in this case.

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              • #22
                I could'nt see anyone spit or punch but to me spitting in someones face is the most disrespectful thing you can do to someone so I would take what I had coming to me for punching that POS.

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                • #23
                  I just caught that the handcuffed person said "i f**ked your wife."

                  Now i'm not so sure he didn't need punched. Don't know how I didn't catch that the first time.
                  Originally posted by K40
                  To me, open carry is the equivalent of the couple making out and groping each other at the food court in the mall. Yeah, they are probably legal, as long as they don't start getting undressed. But they are still social retards.
                  ‎"You go for a man hard enough and fast enough, he don't have time to think about how many's with him; he thinks about himself, and how he might get clear of that wrath that's about to set down on him." - Rooster Cogburn

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Gov View Post
                    Whether we like it or not, "Ptlcop" is absolutely correct in they way this should be handled. Spitting is considered insulting in nature, it is not bodily harm. That said, you would be hard pressed to convince a judge or jury that you were justified in striking a handcuffed person in this case.
                    I totally agree once the cuffs go on treat it kind of like those cowboys do once they rope a calf, they tie em off and hold up their hands and yell "time".

                    All I was saying is it is a natural human reaction to punch them right in the kisser. Not that I condone it. Besides I dont think that happened in this case or if it did I couldn't see it. I thought he just grabbed his head and turned it so he couldnt spit and took him to the ground at the same time. Nothing wrong with that.

                    As for "Spitting considered and instult" its more than that if the person who spits has A.I.D.S or H.I V or TB or whatever, and they have a mouth full of blood and spit into your eyes. Thats even more dangerous than a bite.
                    "Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. The MARINES don't have that problem." ....Ronald Reagan

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                    • #25
                      While I agree that a punch to the face is probably going a bit far for being spit on..... and I have been spat upon by neer do wells, I disagree that striking him, even though he is in handcuffs, is wrong.

                      We have had more than one officer use an open hand slap, to the face of a spitter as a distraction method, then were able to move the face away and do some rearranging. Our training unit, and IA unit, have found this to be appropriate use of force.

                      To each department and officer their own. There is always going to be discrepancies, on what we all view as appropriate, based on where we are employed. It's all about articulation in the end. It's mostly about how well you can describe what you did, and why you felt it was necessary and reasonable.
                      sigpic

                      The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can. Strike him as hard as you can, and keep moving on.-Ulysses S. Grant

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                      • #26
                        Spitting on a PO is agg assault here, and I would have hit the guy too.

                        Although, with the way he was acting I would have had him face down on the concrete long before he spit at the officer anyway :/

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                        • #27
                          I had an inmate spit on me from inside his cell. Luckily for me and the inmate I did not have a key to his cell.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by PtlCop View Post
                            I just caught that the handcuffed person said "i f**ked your wife."

                            Now i'm not so sure he didn't need punched. Don't know how I didn't catch that the first time.
                            If your gonna let him spit on you then you might as well allow him to say he screwed your wife. Those are just words! How just you justfy striking him over words and not for spitting on you?!?!
                            Last edited by Rush817; 08-17-2009, 08:36 AM.
                            Strong Body, Sharp Mind And Good Tactics!

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                            • #29
                              Hind sight is 20/20 guys....(not telling you something you dont already know)

                              I would like to say that I wouldn't have punched the kid, but I honestly dont know.

                              The kid was obviously out of control, "I Fu&*ed your wife"....."I'll kill you nigga"...."Suck my d#$k".....and probably shouldve been in the back of a patrol vehicle. Then while hes in the back he's acting like a total ******, banging around in there.

                              Having been in situations like that its easy to lose your cool and stoop down to their level. But PtlCop has been right on the money when it comes down to it. We are here to enforce the law and not to punish the suspects.

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                              • #30
                                How about if this fool spits on you and you contract one of several deseases that are communicable through saliva (ie. Viral, Bacterial Menengitis-which could kill you, hepatitis B, or Epstein-Barr, to name a few). Spitting on someone is dangerous, I would rather take the punch from this idiot. IMO this falls under active aggression on the force continuum, therefore equal force is required. I say punch OC whatever to protect yourself from being assaulted. also an ASP in this case is prolly not a good idea duh. A soft personal weapon strike to stun and distract is prolly the best bet, and would prolly be just as effective as a punch.
                                Last edited by IBTP711; 08-17-2009, 10:12 AM.

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