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  • #16
    Geez...sounds familiar

    We have a person whom we've had the same issues with. Same deal, can't do anything about it. I need to stop talking about it, I'm going to work in an hour and my vein is already popping out of my forehead.
    It's better to be tried by twelve than carried by six...

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    • #17
      Originally posted by powerstroked View Post
      There is this person on my shift that is never at work! When the Sgt says "There is this training that is coming down the line who wants to go?" Guess who's hand shoots up first. And when they arnt at training they are playing the well i have family coming into town, I am sick, the kids are sick, and I think my dog will get ran over during the shift so i need to stay home and cry about it cards. I really don't see how this person can have anytime left on the books but they do. They have missed so much work they are clueless at calls. Know the feeling you get on that first call when you have been off for 2 weeks? They must not know what its like to NOT have that feeling.

      I am looking for some ideas to handle this on the shift level any input?

      This is a serious morale eroding problem. Thoughtless individuals as you've described, and as I'm also sure, you have experienced, tend not to respond to peer pressure in any substantive way. As has already been covered at length in previous posts, supervisors may not have a tool with which to address this either if the malingerer is just manipulating the system in this way or there is nothing more to work with.

      I know of employees who are so well educated on playing the system they virtually never work a full week of patrol. They will "work" overtime at a jail on one - or both - of their regular days off then comp off one or more of their regular patrol work days, and always in conjunction with their regular days off. Pardon me did I say work; work is a 4 letter word for these slugs. I should say they "show up at a jail and bloat a uniform" for time-and-a-half. When department seniority factors in for who gets to put in for time-off first, "tenured slugs" can simply monopolize all of the prime, time-off slots and of course all of the weekends.

      That leaves the slug's squad working short or with an overtime body who doesn't know the area well for purposes of doing their fair share of paperwork so as far as the squad's concerned that relief person might as well not even be there. As you know, the fall-out from this is more work and less time-off availability for the one's who choose and want to do their jobs responsibly.

      Professionally, how does one handle this? You can't not cover them. You can't ignore them when they need something. But, you don't have to eat with them, have coffee with them, or listen to them whine about being micro-managed on the two days a week they actually occupy a billet a useful person might have otherwise occupied in a patrol car alongside you.

      These people tend not to be productive and are invariably less than "standard employees." As to the slug's inappropriate acts or omissions in other matters of the job, the slug's got "nothing comin'" as far as expecting and enjoying "silence" from their peers. Since the slug's always taken advantage of his peers, as far as I'm concerned, you wouldn't be "ratting out" a fellow officer by letting someone who is in a position to investigate know where and when to be to "discover" the slug's misconduct as their supervisor.

      As I'm sure you know, supervisors can't take action against these folks for the stuff you mentioned, if it's just the slugs playing the system and operating just inside guidelines; but, if the squad members let the sergeant know "what else" is happening or "not happening" that should and shouldn't be happening, in areas outside these, (and with slugs there are always areas "outside these"), a good sergeant can and will do something about those things they learn or find are out of policy. Good luck with that...
      "Better to remain silent and appear a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

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      • #18
        I don't think my office has this problem.

        I'm not really sure though, as I am on leave and away for training a lot...

        M-11
        “All men dream...... But not equally..
        Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it is vanity;
        but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men,
        for they act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible.....”

        TE Lawrence

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        • #19
          As for the slugs who tweak the system any way they can to get out of work...They are everywhere I suppose. As for the guys who are regularly off the street doing 'other functions'...I can't comment on them as I may very well be considered that guy. I wear many hats at work...I'm on my PD's SWAT team which is a periferal duty. I'm an instructor in varios courses at the police academy for both recruits, and in service training for active officers. I'm an instructor at my PD in multiple areas.
          Because of the requirements, and obligations that come with these assignments, I am often not on the street although I am assigned to a patrol platoon. I attend many training courses as well to ensure that I am, as a trainier, knowledgable. I'm sure that there is a level of resentment against me, but the multitude of assignments that I carry out are all nessessary functions. Just because I am not on patrol, does not mean that I am not working.
          I try to make up for this by being especially pro-actice when I am on the street (which keeps my bosses happy).

          I am hoping that this is not what is meant when a few of you reference officers that are constantly off training, and not working.
          Last edited by CUFFS137; 03-22-2009, 06:16 PM.

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          • #20
            Quit worrying about what other people are doing. You're not their supervisor.

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            • #21
              I know I'm not one...I'm too intimidated by our time sheet system to try to figure out how to take time off...

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              • #22
                One thing to keep in mind: wait until they request donated sick leave. Whenever someone on our department requests donated sick leave I do some checking into things if I'm considering donating. Why are they needing the donated leave. What has their leave usage been like in the past. If you are dealing with something legitimate (you have cancer or your newborn baby if fighting for life in an incubator) you pass the first test. HOWEVER even if you have a legit reason for needing the leave, if I check and find out you were one of those people who took off every time they had a headache or were always getting "sick" on the first and last days of their work set, don't expect any leave donation from me. I look at it this way: if you abuse your leave, don't cry when it isn't there when you really need it.
                Anything worth shooting is worth shooting 3 or 4 times.

                M-11

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by skigoggles View Post
                  Quit worrying about what other people are doing. You're not their supervisor.

                  If others are constantly covering it is their business.
                  sigpic

                  I don't agree with your opinion, but I respect its straightforwardness in terms of wrongness.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by M-11 View Post
                    I don't think my office has this problem.

                    I'm not really sure though, as I am on leave and away for training a lot...

                    M-11

                    Lololololol!!!!!!!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by CUFFS137 View Post
                      ...I can't comment on them as I may very well be considered that guy. I wear many hats at work...I'm on my PD's SWAT team which is a periferal duty. I'm an instructor in varios courses at the police academy for both recruits, and in service training for active officers. I'm an instructor at my PD in multiple areas.
                      Because of the requirements, and obligations that come with these assignments, I am often not on the street although I am assigned to a patrol platoon. I attend many training courses as well to ensure that I am, as a trainier, knowledgable. I'm sure that there is a level of resentment against me, but the multitude of assignments that I carry out are all nessessary functions. Just because I am not on patrol, does not mean that I am not working.
                      I try to make up for this by being especially pro-actice when I am on the street (which keeps my bosses happy).

                      I am hoping that this is not what is meant when a few of you reference officers that are constantly off training, and not working.
                      cuffs---------------------------------
                      Not the same thing the OP is talking about. You are not only furthering your career but you are training to be a better trainer of new staff. That type of absence from the shift is necessary.

                      We are talking about the "others"-----------------EVERY department represented on this forum has someone that is an expert on working the system.


                      Originally posted by FJDave View Post
                      This is the way I deal with it. Look for patterns (calling in on a day in conjunction with RDOs, every Sunday, etc), deny day off or training requests with good cause, and the big one is mentioning it in the yearly eval. The eval is a permanent part of their record, so they don't want that in there.
                      I know others have mentioned looking for patterns, mentioning on evaluations and denying "extra training". Where I am so frustrated is that even when doing the above-----------------------many of them still don't care. These are the ones that are here for a paycheck, not looking to promote, and feel the time is in the contract so we OWE it to them.

                      I am finding more and more that don't care what I put on their evals. ------In my department an eval is really only used if they want to promote or get into CERT (corrections equivalent of SWAT)------------and the slugs don't want to do the extra work involved in the training.

                      Originally posted by 37delta View Post
                      Family medical leave and some guy taking training days off all the time are 2 different things. My dept actually gives us a set # of family sick days every year. Those are in addititon to our sick days we build during the year. We also get annual days that build during the year. Anyway, we do have those guys who seem like they are out on training a lot more than they are on patrol. I think that is a shame because it leaves the rest of the squad humping calls while they are sucking up all the training. We use to have a pretty clear cut order that you could only be on 1 special unit or squad. We developed a seach and recuse a while back and also a honor guard. Our swat guys use to do it, but now we actually have a set unit who train every month. With the new units, anyone is able to be on multiple teams. It sucks because they have to take time off each month to train on the different teams. I think the issue could be fixed from the bosses, but both those teams are kind of pet projects of them, so the rest of us are stuck doing the dirty work.
                      VALID family leave is one thing, off on training is another. The OP is talking about the SLUG----------you have them on your department.

                      Originally posted by Long Gun View Post
                      Some of these guys care more about knowing their "rights" than how to be a professional peace officer. And again... their peers don't stand a chance if the supervisor doesn't. We have a deputy who has at times over the years bragged that some years he has spent more days off work than on.
                      Back in the old days-------------------we used to have a blanket party every once in a while.......................THAT was peer pressure (and it used to work). Violence in the workplace laws have canceled that option.

                      Originally posted by skigoggles View Post
                      Quit worrying about what other people are doing. You're not their supervisor.
                      The behavior has a negative impact on morale in the department. It, believe it or not, helps me as a supervisor to know that it is in fact bothering the other line staff. I can't do much about it, but its nice to know others are frustrated about it too.





                      Wait until your favorite slug finds out about Intermitant FMLA. That is the condition where the officer has to stay home to care for the family member that has an "on going medical problem that intermitantly needs attention." The staff member can call in Necessary Care and have it already approved as FMLA-------------------Usually in conjuction with the staff members days off.
                      Last edited by Iowa #1603; 03-23-2009, 07:50 AM.
                      Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

                      My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Iowa #1603 View Post
                        The behavior has a negative impact on morale in the department. It, believe it or not, helps me as a supervisor to know that it is in fact bothering the other line staff. I can't do much about it, but its nice to know others are frustrated about it too.
                        But you are the supervisor. You should notice these things. And there are plenty of things you can do about it. Find out if your department has rules on the use of sick time. For instance if he's taking sick time and is out lets say fishing. Takes sick time and is working a side job.
                        Who approves training requests. Deny that person the opportunity for training.
                        If you have the "Nothing I can do about it" attitude as a super, you're just part of the problem.
                        And alot of things have a negative impact on morale, poor equipment, low pay, bad bosses, etc.

                        Originally posted by Smurfette_76 View Post
                        If others are constantly covering it is their business.
                        It's your job. You applied to the PD, they didn't come begging you to work for them. If someone isn't doing their work and you have to pick up the slack thats tough. Unless you can find me the part in your directives/rules/orders that says something to the effect that Officers get to determine how much work they think is fair for them to do.

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                        • #27
                          Yeh, we have a few guys with 20 years on the job and only 7 years experience. Guess they are everywhere.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Smurfette_76 View Post
                            If others are constantly covering it is their business.
                            Right on!
                            Prov 17:17 A friend loveth at all times, and a brother is born for adversity.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by skigoggles View Post
                              But you are the supervisor. You should notice these things. And there are plenty of things you can do about it. Find out if your department has rules on the use of sick time. For instance if he's taking sick time and is out lets say fishing. Takes sick time and is working a side job.
                              Who approves training requests. Deny that person the opportunity for training.
                              If you have the "Nothing I can do about it" attitude as a super, you're just part of the problem.
                              And alot of things have a negative impact on morale, poor equipment, low pay, bad bosses, etc.
                              Of course I know the sick leave rules. And I notice a whole lot more than the line staff think I do. Actually most of the abusers don't care what I notice--------they could care less

                              The rules are pretty strict but it is also necessary to be able to prove abuse. Every supervisor on here will tell you that it is not as easy as one might think its.
                              Do I suspect abuse----------many times------------can it be proved so I don't it thrown back in my face when I discipline----------not so much.

                              Oh yea----------as soon as I go out trying to catch the person-------------------the calls for IA RAT SQUAD start going out.

                              In a work force of about 400, I can think of maybe 10 instances of actually catching a sick leave abuser in the last 10 yrs. 5 of them by accident (spotted at outside activities by supervisory staff when they were "sick"). At least 3 when the idiot ratted themselves off. And the others----I just can't remember off hand.

                              I can suspect all I want when I see patterns.

                              I CAN and DO require doctor certification of "being sick" when certain amounts of leave have been used. But I can go to almost any doctor and get a work excuse------------by paying the co-fee on our insurance........they usually ask ME how much time I want off when I go to see them for an illness.

                              I can't discipline for suspicion

                              The training requests that is a whole different matter and is easily taken care of ----------------unless the union makes the supervisor approve training based on seniority ---------and your slug is senior.


                              If it doesn't bother you that a coworker is not pulling his/her weight and screwing his/her co-workers--------------------I guess it says a lot about you.
                              Last edited by Iowa #1603; 03-23-2009, 07:12 PM.
                              Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

                              My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by FJDave View Post
                                This is the way I deal with it. Look for patterns (calling in on a day in conjunction with RDOs, every Sunday, etc), deny day off or training requests with good cause, and the big one is mentioning it in the yearly eval. The eval is a permanent part of their record, so they don't want that in there.
                                Outstanding supervision. Instead of trying to lead troops, attempt to ding an evaluation. Every think that the guys who are avoiding coming to work, are sick of dealing with dingdongs like you?

                                How do you deal with this pattern Einstein? I work a 6/3. Any day that I may call in sick has a 66% chance of being in conjunction with a RDO or a weekend.

                                I bet the majority of troops with over 5 years on the job who become malingerers, do it after having repeated negative experience with you mopes who are supposed to be leading. The real venal thieves are you donks who make boss and then attempt to "lead" by (please pick up on the implied sarcasm) picking up on patterns.

                                How about talking to the guy and figuring out how many times he's been screwed over and taking care of him.

                                Comment

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