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  • #76
    Who is the victim in a drunk driving arrest? I'm not talking about a crash with property damage or injuries, just your run-of-the-mill drunk. Do you know who it is that brings the charge against the driver in these cases?

    I''m not sure why you keep bringing up "on duty." Anyone that shows up to work drunk should know that they could face workplace discipline, in addition to possible criminal charges depending on what happened, just as anyone off duty that drives drunk should know the same thing.

    "Arrest" is merely one problem solving tool that we have available to us to use. To think that it is the end-all be-all of prevention, punishment and/or rehabilitation is incredibly naive. I think you should re-read my posts a little more carefully.


    *** added:
    If the People feel that drunk driving is an ALWAYS ARREST crime with ZERO ROOM FOR OFFICER DISCRETION, then they can and should change the law to "SHALL ARREST" not "MAY ARREST." As we've been through umpteen times before on here, each state usually has a few laws on the books that are "SHALL ARREST" crimes, such as DV assault, violation of protection from abuse orders, and warrants.

    Then, I would whole-heatedly agree that giving anyone a break for drunk driving would be wrong. But until that happens, I will evaluate situations on an individual basis and do what I think is the right thing to do...

    ... just like 99% of everything else that we do as cops.

    A question for you, if you'd indulge me, since you brought it up:
    Why should I, as a police officer, charge ANYONE who tests at 0.08 when my county prosecutor WILL NOT prosecute this as a crime -- EVEN if it's a lightweight that is fall-down impaired? (You do know that they have lawful discretion and immunity, correct?)
    Last edited by Resq14; 03-29-2009, 06:32 PM.
    All Gave Some - Some Gave All

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    • #77
      I arrested a guy last night for DWI/DUI and it appeared to be his first drunk driving arrest. He blew and was way over the legal limit.

      An hour later the jail said his fingerprints returned to another name and the guy had a felony warrant out for his arrest for DUI in Kansas.

      Sure am glad I arrested him.
      No man is above the law and no man is below it: nor do we ask any man's permission when we require him to obey it.
      -Theodore Roosevelt

      The views expressed by this screen name do not represent any civilian,municipal, military, or federal law enforcement agency and are strictly the views of the individual writing. Under no circumstances should someone consider the content of these posts to have anything less than a great deal of sarcasm interlaced throughout. Read at your own risk.

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      • #78
        Boyle, very good post..thats why this job is going to [email protected]@ because of mindless robotic traffic cops. I makes me sick that we lost four brave brothers this week and their are actually officers on here posting and bragging about locking up other cops for chickensh^^ misdemeanors. Remember gents the Oakland thing can happen anywhere, anytime at any agency. The cop you arrest today is the same cop you have to goto his funeral tommorrow. Imagine being with all his brothers saying he was a hard worker, a good cop, a go getter, and then you come in....oh yea I arrested him last month a block away from his house for .08...wow!...I know I couldnt look myself in the mirror. As for the other guy from baltimore who stated cops who dont arrest cops for DUI shouldnt be worthy of wearing a badge is ridiculous. Again this is not communist Russia or China. I personally think most of the DUI kings on this forum dont really know how to do police work. I dont think they know how to do a knock and talk or a consent to search. Which is pretty sad.

        Boyle, we can work together anytime you want. I work with NET guys in your precinct alot. One of them has the same name as the mayor lol. You can ask him about me,,,we have a good time. I recently arrested one guy on Chambers Street who punched a priest in the jaw and broke it at a basketball game. Drop me a line and we wil bust out the warrant list and go to work. Its good there are still some cops like us that like to arrest real bad guys who have the real capablity of hurting people instead of other cops.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by baltimorepablo
          You never know what could happen. My whole point is this, you just don't know what that person is capable of doing and to know that you could put a stop to this action and not do it is just not right in my opinion. I think that officers use discretion with this only when it comes to other officers
          You are quite mistaken. But that's okay.

          Again, monkey-see, monkey-do police work (or robotic traffic enforcement per FugitiveHunter above) is not something that I'd be proud of doing. Don't get me wrong -- I'll stop cars my entire shift if nothing is going on. But I understand that there is more to it than "PRESSHARD5COPIES."

          As for always on duty... my warrior mindset is always on duty. Even though I can technically be a cop 24x7 and call in defective headlights while on the way to the gas station and write handicap parking space violations at the grocery store, I think it's best to play the role of Professional Witness and only take action when it's needed to protect lives. I think you'll find this isn't an uncommon position on the matter.
          Last edited by Resq14; 03-29-2009, 08:49 PM.
          All Gave Some - Some Gave All

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          • #80
            Boyle, just mention to the guy with the mayors last name the other guy who is also in the Coast Guard and is from back East,and he will know exactly who you are talking about. I only arrest "real bad guys", the parasites like the West Side City Crips, Lindo Park Crips and all the other vermon that is out to hurt the innocent public. For everyone we remove from the street is one less potential cop killer, drive by shooter, car jacker, home invader,burglar.I am proud of what I do taking these people away from the public. I have never in my sixteen years ever hurt another cop or cops family or one of the good guys and I proud to say that. I was taught right by very smart cops from back East. I have carried those traditions on with me and try to preach them out here. I have bent over backwards to help other LE's out even when they have done some pretty stupid [email protected]@ when I worked patrol.

            Baltimorepablo, you should do a ride along in some cities like DC, Baltimore, LAPD and Phoenix. If you just happen to run along a drunk LEO or a car swerving. Well this no major thing, those poor guys come on and already have 30 calls holding. Some of them major incidents. Most of them hump their ***##s until the end of the shift, some without a meal break. A drunk LEO or a vehicle swerving is considered petty stuff in most of those cities. Even some of the smaller agencies out here like Avondale AZ, National City CA, have calls backed up and dont have time to deal with petty BS. Coppers who work in these places are the front line defense between chaos and insanity in those neighborhoods. If all they did was enforce traffic and DUI laws there would be alot of people dead because there would be no cops on the road to respond to the neighborhood fights and shots fired. This is reality and admire all the guys, especially Oakland who go and work on the front lines of that enviorment everyday. If one of them wants to go out and have a beer or two after work so be it...they deserve it. Not talking about flat getting flat out drunk but have a few beers. Maybe a good portion of guys on this forum should go for a choir practice with the boys..Might do them some good.
            Last edited by Fugitive Hunter; 03-29-2009, 11:18 PM.

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            • #81
              Wow this is hot...

              Brotherhood= not putting other brothers in the a bad spot (like driving drunk)
              Brotherhood = taking care of your fellow officers (but where is the line drawn and who draws it? Age old question that may never be answered))

              Getting stopped for DUI in a large agency may work out ok if given a break....as the population is so great this may not show up on the radar....or will it in even greater fashion?(press, pictures, video cameras television stations etc...)

              In a smaller town doing this will certainly create hostility and more importantly distrust from the citizens toward the department. You stop a citizen for the same thing after this gets out and you will expect to hear the lines (rightfully so) well you gave ofc. so& so a break.....why not me? This will create future hostile contacts.

              You cannot win either way.

              One thing is certain you CANNOT release the person to continue to drive OR to have the opportunity to drive. If he/she does get nbehind the wheel and then something bad happens...you and your agency may be civillay and criminally liable.

              Do you want to take that chance? Not so much for fear of your career being ruined, but for the injury/death of others or the driver himself......when you knew the condition of the driver? What may appear to be a close to .08 may be on the rise...


              If you use your discretion then get a sober, RESPONSIBLE person to get this driver in the hands of! You don't want to make an issue....a good solid friend to make sure this person gets home without incident. Want to make a wakeup call...call the driver's super....let hiim take him home.

              Get a designated driver, save the $$ from one round for a cab, call an on duty officer you know.....call mom!!, but do not disrespect your fellow officers by placing them in this position, it does not respect them and will certainly cause issues.

              Discretion is a very important part of our job! on and off duty.

              My answer to the poll is not on the list of answers.....

              Get this person into the hands of a sober, responsible person (shift partner, friend, relative) and make sure they live to fight another day.

              But one must live with his or her own decisions......make sure that you can live with it.
              Last edited by chiefcop; 03-30-2009, 10:46 AM.

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              • #82
                Originally posted by baltimorepablo
                [EDIT]I know this might get me banned but I felt like someone on the "civilian" side needed to be heard on this. Police officers are always talking about trust and integrity but I thought this was just something you saw in the movies; how cops don't arrest cops because it will cast a dark shadow on them. Sorry to the admins but I needed to get this off my chest.
                Got if off your chest - good - now get the he!! out of the Squad Room!

                Glad I got that off MY chest.
                I’ll die with blue in my veins.

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                • #83
                  They need to restrict this to Sworn Officers ONLY…

                  I agree with Resq14 on this…

                  Seems to be a divide between Troopers and Cops on this issue.
                  Troopers world is the traffic code…

                  At our state police academy trooper cadets weren’t even allowed to talk with the police cadets who shared the academy with them, setting up even further division.

                  I wouldn’t expect any PC from one of our Highway Patrol, everyone else I would to some extent. If I had the chance, within reason, I would give another cop a break, even a Trooper.

                  Oh in my state DUI is a joke, strict laws on multiple offences, but you check the rap sheet and see six or more recent DUI’s all as DUI 1st, that’s how our courts deal with them.
                  Last edited by Magic Matt; 03-31-2009, 12:17 PM.
                  Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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                  • #84
                    Officer discretion, officer discretion, officer discretion.
                    Me there are only a hand full of things I would arrest a fellow cop for i.e. murder and drugs. A DUI, that is my choice and no one else's. I could never write another LEO or their immediate family member a ticket and that is exactly what a DUI is a City misdamenor. We have a thin blue line in what we do. The man or woman that stands next to you is your partner. You, yes you!, put your life in their hands everyday. You take care of each other on and off duty. That is what the blue line is all about.

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                    • #85
                      PO2U,
                      No worries, and where there is state law there is city ordinence. We make city ordinence's to mirror state law. Again officer discretion. I know some cops that have done what we call the wind test for marijuana. Ok someone driving home after working a 20 hr shift. Does it not impair your driving just like drinking? It does. So again you have the choice. I understand your opinon. But I just couldn't do it. Take it like this. If you pulled over your dad, and he was intoxicated, would you arrest him for DUI? If you would, its ok that is your choice, but if not again that is your choice. What ever choice you make your partners should stand behind you. Don't get me wrong if a partner is just plainly abusing his or her power i.e. violating people's right's then yes something needs to be said, but as long as there is no accident or other circumstance I believe its up to the officer. Food for thought, your driving down the Interstate and see someone change lanes without signaling, would you A) just let them go and think they are retarded because they cant make a simple move to turn on their blinker or B) write them a ticket. Because changing lanes without signaling has caused accidents and some of them were injuries. But there is one thing I agree with you on 100%, no officer should ever put another officer in a position where they had to make a choice like this. That is professional courtesy. Thank you for writing that very tastefully, I wasnt expecting something like this.

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                      • #86
                        Where does marijuana play into all this, I dont know of any cops that smoke dope. But I do know alot of cops that like to drink. Cops are not perfect people, but just human. Humans makes mistakes and cops are only human. This job is tough enough on a daily basis, we dont need co workers or traffic boobs from other agencies making it even harder.

                        Baltimorepable, you must have been popular during your ride alongs talking about , hey if we stop a cop tonight whos had two beers, were gonna book him right? I think if you did that in Baltimore, you would probably dropped off on a street corner somewhere in the Western never to be heard from again. I see you are not even the police yet but just another know it all criminal justice student who probably listens to his professors theory of professional policing too much. Get a job first kid and then tell me about the real world after doing it for five years.
                        Last edited by Fugitive Hunter; 03-30-2009, 10:27 PM.

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by baltimorepablo
                          PO2U: That's all I'm saying. At least I know that others feel the same way. In my opinion, I would rather let an officer go that had a little bit of weed smell than a DUI but that's not even the point. My point was that just because they were cops they are somehow above the law and deserve more breaks than someone in the community, and that's just wrong. A mother that loses her kid or a kid that loses her mother won't accept the excuse that it creates 3 hours of paperwork so it's not worth charging someone for a DUI. It's not about the actions that happen that night but the consequences that come from those actions, i.e.: because the officer didn't get in trouble that night, he'll probably do it again and what happens next time when things don't go so well on the streets?

                          Fugitive Hunter: I have done ride-a-longs with several big cities (i.e.: plain-clothes narcotic squad in bmore where I've been several times kicking down doors on raids or regular squad car ride-a-longs as well) and yea they're busy but it doesn't excuse not charging someone for a crime just because they're a cop. Again, I'm not saying go out and focus on these crimes but if someone is a obviously wasted above a .08 you just can't justify a pass...

                          You have no business posting in this forum. Since when does a "sales/marketing/criminal justice student" qualify as a sworn officer? As far as I'm concerned unless you have walked in a cop's shoes when it comes to this matter, your opinion is meaningless. The question was directed at COPS!
                          I’ll die with blue in my veins.

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                          • #88
                            The line is simple:

                            Felony / NOT Felony!

                            (or multiple screw ups)
                            Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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                            • #89
                              PC/blue line/code of silence questions aside, the problem with arresting a cop for DUI is that the punishment is going to be significantly more severe then for Joe Public. When a factory worker leaves The Harvester and gets tagged at .15 he pays his fine, gets a license suspension and probation, and off he goes. A cop loses his job and probably won't be replacing it anytime soon. He'll make the news, most likely. A truck driver may lose his job and the high school principal may make the paper, but NO ONE loses as much to a DUI arrest, not even conviction, just arrest than an LEO.

                              Just something to think about.
                              I miss you, Dave.
                              http://www.odmp.org/officer/20669-of...david-s.-moore

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                              • #90
                                I am take the middle of the road kind of guy with anybody. Unless they are stupid drunk or got an attitude problim. I hold myself and other officers to a higher standard. So, you don't get a free ride. I want minimum your partner or another officer from your agency to come and pick your drunk ***** up. That way on the trip home they can knock some sense into you. Drive it home that you are held to a higher standard. Im not going to dime you out or throw you under the bus to a supervisor but Im not going to let you skate on. And if we cross paths a second time and your drunk well then it shows me what you think about me and I have no sympathy.
                                Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius.

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