How Many of you Have Had your butts handed to you

[JSD73]

For the first five years of my career I worked as a patrol officer and while I have been in some scraps I can honestly say that most of the time when it went down I had other officers with me and we handled up fairly well.

For the last three years I have been a Deputy Sheriff and have been inside a county jail. I can honestly say I've been more stressed out in this environment, mainly because I make it that way, but the way our set up is...backup isn't readily available and the inmate's of course have the advantage. I have been in more scraps inside this jail than I was on the street and for some reason I have been doubting my ability more and more as of late when it comes to handling myself...and I haven't lost yet but I could be more proficient. I was always less afraid of getting shot at than having my face cracked...strange huh? I have gained new and profound respect for those who work in prisons and even county jails with what they, we, have to put up with and the ratios of CO's to turds.

I'm curiuos to know, have you had your butt handed to you in front of other inmates and if so, how did you get past that mental stumbling block, or did you just brush it off and say, oh well, it happens. I know all about inmate's not wanting to lose face...and I'm damn sure we don't want to lose face either. Oh yeah, one more thing, the last few times I've been knee deep in it, my radio has gone flying off, way before I even get the chance to call out...and half the time when it happens, we aren't being monitored by our control room...biggest fear, getting my *** handed to me and not being able to call for help or get it.

[hankrearden2000]

Radios not being monitored by your control room? Why?

I've been assaulted a number of times, but it was always a lone inmate. I've known several officers who have been beaten by several thugs, stabbed, and overpowered by a single thug. They have always managed to shake it off and get back to work as quickly as possible with a positive attitude, which is the best way to handle it I think.

The higher I've gone in security levels, the less I've been assaulted. Could be the "Leavenworth Response" that accounts for that though. When we have a call for assistance, even in these days of being understaffed, the response is pretty impressive. We have the non-lethals that we need to keep the situation from escalating, and all bets are off when thugs turn violent and they know it. When staff are assaulted the entire prison population can count on at least a week or ten days of being locked down with a strict diet of cheese & horsecock sandwiches. Knowing of the inevitability of locking down and eating horsecocks, the gang leaders and 'thugs-of-influence' work to keep violence at a minimum and violence against staff to an almost non-existant level. It's a great loss of face to be shot-up with pepperball launchers, L-8s loaded with rubber buckshot, Stingball grenades, MK-9s, and beaten with maglights; then have to live in a stinking cellblock without showers on a diet of horsecock. That's the kind of stuff that gets gang leaders replaced by more capable thugs.

[Mr. CO]

A.) Don't you have camera's at your jail.
B.) Don't you commicate with other officers, tell them you are going on a round.
C.) We are required to follow a female officer on camera throughout the round. Just incase she gets pulled into a room. Actually everyone should do the same, but it doesn't happen that way.

[vizmark]

I have worked the floor for 10 of my almost 17 years as a C/O and I have never had my rear handed to me. Have I been scared, hell yes. If one of the C/O here does get into a 415, backup arrives within 15-20 seconds. It usually involves one of our nut cases. If not, it will be one of our badge heavy officers that creates conflict where ever they go.

Without offending you as I am only going by what you have written above and relating it to my own experience. I just don't think you should be having so many problems. Your approach to corrections might be a little wrong. From my training experience as a FTO, I have seen some officers that have come from patrol have problems dealing with inmates. It seems they demand respect instead of trying earning it. It's more of a two way street in corrections. You have to give some in order to receive it. I am far from saying you have to roll over and be soft, but you have to use tact and choose your word carefully. You are dealing so many personalities that it can be easy to offend people. Our department has a Direct Supervision class we put on for new officers to give them tools to help them deal with conflict while running their dorms.

I am out of time, but maybe someone else can add a little more.

[TX_CO]

I work in a state penitentiary, no we don't have cameras, not every position is issued a radio or even handcuffs, I tend to work segregation areas where I am isolated but well equipped (radio,baton,OC,cuffs,stab vest), I have been in several fights either assisting other officers or by myself.

[hankrearden2000]

I can honestly say I've been more stressed out in this environment, mainly because I make it that way,

What exactly did you mean by that? Are you working with a bunch of lops who only want to do their eight, and hit the gate? Or, are you putting yourself out in front of the pack, maybe a little too far for your own well-being? Often it's too easy to get too far out front when the people you work with and for are just occupying space.

I see that you've made it three years, so you must be doing something right, if you are keeping the pressure on without causing an explosion.

[JSD73]

A.) Don't you have camera's at your jail.
B.) Don't you commicate with other officers, tell them you are going on a round.
C.) We are required to follow a female officer on camera throughout the round. Just incase she gets pulled into a room. Actually everyone should do the same, but it doesn't happen that way.

Yes, we have cameras in our jail, however, they aren't constantly monitored by anyone in particular. If you work a pod or dorm, you aren't being monitored unless you have a cluster control operator sitting in the cluster. We don't make mention of doing a round and if you did, half the control operators would say, "ooookkkkayyy."

[JSD73]

What exactly did you mean by that? Are you working with a bunch of lops who only want to do their eight, and hit the gate? Or, are you putting yourself out in front of the pack, maybe a little too far for your own well-being? Often it's too easy to get too far out front when the people you work with and for are just occupying space.

I see that you've made it three years, so you must be doing something right, if you are keeping the pressure on without causing an explosion.

Well, let's say that we have hired an abundance of young bucks who either want a badge for power or because they still live at home and see this as an easy paycheck. They don't care about enforcing the rules I've been trying to enforce since I started at this place (tucking in your white shirt, no commissary cups in the dayroom during chow, keeping your hands out of your pants, no do rags and the list goes on) so when I or another Deputy attempts to enforce it, the inmate goes off and you have to handle up over something so meaningless.

Let me give you an idea..our new jail is built somewhat like a Y. The area I normally work in is booking/intake and that area is located at the bottom of the Y. You follow the "Y" upwards and at the splitting point is where Master Controls is located and the pods are down the ends of the Y. In each pod, say F pod, you have a cluster control room, supposed to be occupied..not always so...and three pods, either two tier, 6 - 8 man tanks, or dorm style...F100 F200 or F300. There is supposed to be a floor Deputy in each cluster area...HA...we're so short because we pay horribly...so if we call for assistance many times it is those of us in booking who respond so you have to imagine that the Y is a very very elongated Y in each direction. The people who designed our jail did not consult with any CO's nor did they ever design a jail before.

The bottom line is, the inmate's know we are short, they know we arrive tired on back up calls, and they know just how long it takes for us to get there and we have had more Deputies assaulted since this facility opened as compared to our old jail. Hell, in one of the medical tanks, where there is no cluster deputy an inmate attempted to shank a Deputy in the neck and the only reason he failed is he didn't spend the time necessary to sharpen the 9 inch rod he took from a mop bucket THAT SHOULD NEVER HAVE STILL BEEN THERE.

Hope that clears it up a bit. I just don't like to lose and I have been searching for a good CQB course or school as I want to be the most effective I can be at everything I do, be it working in this jail or going back out on the street. Anyways, to all of you who do what you do day in and day out..God Bless you.

I might be expecting more from myself than normal as I have high expectations ...I give these turds respect when it is given to me and return it as needed but sometimes feel I'm being too nice even though we all know in the back of our heads that Admin cowtows to their every little need and blames us for being too aggressive.

[hankrearden2000]

Admin cowtows to their every little need and blames us for being too aggressive.

It seems that it's pretty much the same everywhere in that regard. What kinds of non-lethals do you have available?

[JSD73]

We have our fists and radios available to us.........if by some weird authorization, Admin has access to a pepper ball gun...Other than that we have nothing ...no taser, no batons, no OC...just hands, mouths, radios and cuffs.

[hankrearden2000]

A bad deal. Why?

[JSD73]

Not understanding sir: "a bad deal". What's a bad deal?

[Hack]

The bottom line is, the inmate's know we are short, they know we arrive tired on back up calls, and they know just how long it takes for us to get there and we have had more Deputies assaulted since this facility opened as compared to our old jail. Hell, in one of the medical tanks, where there is no cluster deputy an inmate attempted to shank a Deputy in the neck and the only reason he failed is he didn't spend the time necessary to sharpen the 9 inch rod he took from a mop bucket THAT SHOULD NEVER HAVE STILL BEEN THERE.

Hope that clears it up a bit. I just don't like to lose and I have been searching for a good CQB course or school as I want to be the most effective I can be at everything I do, be it working in this jail or going back out on the street. Anyways, to all of you who do what you do day in and day out..God Bless you.

I might be expecting more from myself than normal as I have high expectations ...I give these turds respect when it is given to me and return it as needed but sometimes feel I'm being too nice even though we all know in the back of our heads that Admin cowtows to their every little need and blames us for being too aggressive.

For CQB I would suggest Krav Maga if you have it available and afford it. It looks pretty easy, and I hear it is. In MO where I used to work, there were a couple of guys who were profiecient in Hwa Rang Do. They could kick behind and then some.

I need to learn more, but I'm beginning to think I'm going to have to stay local and learn what I can in town. Maybe someone has an inexpensive course available for something that will work. Like push hands tai chi or something.

[JSD73]

Yeah, I've got a place that gives LEO's Krav Maga lessons for free...the only problem is when I asked what the instructors qualifications were..I never got a response back. That bothers me.

[ToolChick]

We have our fists and radios available to us.........if by some weird authorization, Admin has access to a pepper ball gun...Other than that we have nothing ...no taser, no batons, no OC...just hands, mouths, radios and cuffs.

hey atleat you got cuffs! We have to wait for compound to get there to have them cuffed. We have ourselves and our radio/BA's. During day watch we are 260/1 in some of the dorm style units. Problem is, is that everyone thinks since they are dorm style, they are all low. No we got all the nasty guys that all seem to have something to prove. LAME. We used to have another officer up stairs on the B floor, but thanks to budget cuts it's one officer for both floors during the day.