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Prisons should not be "for profit" please read.

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  • Prisons should not be "for profit" please read.

    Here in the Uk all Her Majesties Prison Officers are employed by the government to serve in HMPS.

    A month ago it was announced that G4S had won the bid to run HMP Birmingham. http://gu.com/p/2z5dn
    The Prison Officers union POA are to challenge this in court, our colleagues will be asked to remove Her Majesties crest from their uniform and replace it with a G4S one. http://www.poauk.org.uk/index.php?home

    Many hundreds of my colleagues will be taken on with new contracts, new pay and conditions...i.e. less pay or will have to leave their jobs, there may be a possibility of some staff transferring to another jail with vacancies....or not.

    This is just the start here with other prisons going forward for tender soon in the UK.

  • #2
    I suspect that your philosophical opposition is due not to the prison being run for profit but to its not being run by the government.

    Would you be happy with the prison being run by a private non-profit corporation?
    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
    Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi, thanks for reading my post.

      No, I would not be happy with that. I have worked for the Prison Service for 23 years and think that i have put in a good shift, all my terms and conditions may change, I may have to move my family across the country (not such a big country I know but you get my drift).

      Part of this is about tradition, part is about keeeping a roof over our heads and food in our mouths. The private sector pay is around £14,000 less than I make now and thats just basic pay with no overtime - I will be given no choice and a determined period to decide after more than 2 decades service and 20 years left to work.

      This is just the first prison, others will follow.

      Comment


      • #4
        So I am correct then. This is really about the effect on you, not whether the proposed change is in the public interest.
        Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
        Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

        Comment


        • #5
          yes.....of course, I am the public also and its not in my interest, it's not just about the staff but about whether the prisoners that we hold are being held securely, with enough staff to deliver rehabilitation, programs, education etc.

          It's about the institution of prisons and the role the public want the service to provide. The 2 viewpoints are not exclusive.

          Comment


          • #6
            Honestly, all you have to do is look at the resounding failure that the private prison industry is here in the US to realize how bad an idea it is. Very low pay and benefits for officers means that hiring standards have to be lowered to staff the facilities. That results in prison facilities that have rampant corruption. Not only that, but keep in mind that a private company's only priority is profit. They will cut corners in terms of the safety and security of the facility and it's staff in order to increase company profits. Is that something that is acceptable to you DAL?

            I do not support private prisons any more than I would accept security guards working as police officers.
            What is Perseverance?
            -Perseverance is commitment, hard work, patience, endurance.
            -Perseverance is being able to bear difficulties calmly and without complaint.
            -PERSEVERANCE IS TRYING AGAIN AND AGAIN.


            BOP - BPA - ICE

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by TheKansan View Post
              Honestly, all you have to do is look at the resounding failure that the private prison industry is here in the US to realize how bad an idea it is. Very low pay and benefits for officers means that hiring standards have to be lowered to staff the facilities. That results in prison facilities that have rampant corruption. Not only that, but keep in mind that a private company's only priority is profit. They will cut corners in terms of the safety and security of the facility and it's staff in order to increase company profits. Is that something that is acceptable to you DAL?



              I do not support private prisons any more than I would accept security guards working as police officers.
              I agree 100% but want to add that our brothers and sisters that DO work on the private side are still our kin.
              Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

              My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

              Comment


              • #8
                As I see it, the issues are (1) how good a job do private prisons do, (2) is there some philosophical or moral reason why the government should not be allowed to contract out for the services involved. and (3) is private contracting cost effective.
                Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
                Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by DAL View Post
                  As I see it, the issues are (1) how good a job do private prisons do, (2) is there some philosophical or moral reason why the government should not be allowed to contract out for the services involved. and (3) is private contracting cost effective.

                  1...............marginal at best. They under most circumstances undercut the prevailing wage (of government CO's) by 5-20%. Like The Kansan stated, you get what you pay for. Many (not all) of their employees are either failed, or soon to be state CO's. High turnover and marginal staff wrecks havoc in the orderly running of an institution.

                  Their authority is questionable; the equipment is many times subpar, & training in the barely meeting standards line. When “stuff happens” governmental intervention is usually necessary to quell the disturbance, capture the escapee, or secure the perimeter.
                  2………………………….No not really . Just ask yourself do you really want Charles Manson guarded by the lowest bidder.

                  3…………………………………………⠀¦UP front cost yes. Read my response#1. By undercutting wages of the employees , using substandard equipments and training & limiting the benefits of their employees they most of the time charge the government less to do the job than if the government was managing the prison

                  Florida and Texas are the gold standard for privatizing some of their prisons. Not figured into the cost of course is the entire division at the central office to regulate, supervise, and negotiate the contracts.


                  No I am not a fan of private prisons. Yes I am biased-----------this is my profession & I pretty much know what it is all about.

                  My state has flirted with the concept several times over the years and the bean counters (legislative fiscal bureau- department not DOC )always tell the legislature that the pros are not worth the cons.
                  Last edited by Iowa #1603; 04-23-2011, 07:08 PM.
                  Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

                  My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    There are certain things that I believe are inherently governmental and should not be contracted out to private businesses. We are not talking about mowing the grass or providing janitorial services here. There are human lives on the line, and the safety and security of our communities is at stake.

                    http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...e-prisons.html

                    The link above is an article about private prisons in Arizona, and touches on many of the issues in the industry.
                    What is Perseverance?
                    -Perseverance is commitment, hard work, patience, endurance.
                    -Perseverance is being able to bear difficulties calmly and without complaint.
                    -PERSEVERANCE IS TRYING AGAIN AND AGAIN.


                    BOP - BPA - ICE

                    Comment

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