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  • HR is probably trying to run a larger IF class. So they might be waiting for more candidates to get through the whole process and then send out your EOD.

    Comment


    • Nypd8339
      Nypd8339 commented
      Editing a comment
      So I’m guessing if I don’t here anything back is that a good thing ?

  • My question is if you are off duty somewhere and an active shooter or other violent crime is happening in front of you, do they expect you to just stay out of it or if you act, you do it as a private citizen? we live in a world where somebody off their rocker can pick up a gun and cause havock at any time. Im not the type to stand by and do nothing, at the same time dont wanna get raked over the coals for trying to do the right thing.
    I have as many names as there are winds, as many titles as there are ways to die. -Odin

    Comment


    • ChrisQuirolo
      ChrisQuirolo commented
      Editing a comment
      BOP or not, I'm going in.
      Also, even though LEOSA covers me federally to carry, I still maintain my States CCW/CPL permit.

    • Keyturner
      Keyturner commented
      Editing a comment
      You'll be acting as private citizen in that situation. Same as if you had a CCW.

  • The BOP has already said if you use your firearm off duty they will not back you. The BOP still claim that the BOP does not authorize staff to carry off duty and has no policy on off duty carry. The only policy the BOP has is on carrying to and from work. The BOP claims that leosa authorizes staff to carry off duty .It took a memo from the Attorney General when leosa was passed to get the BOP to say staff was covered under the law. I do not understand how the BOP thinks that they do not authorize staff to carry off duty as the Attorney General said we are covered under leosa and the Attorney General is over the DOJ and the BOP is a component of the DOJ. Now as far as saying they will not back staff who use a weapon off duty I do not know how well that will work for the BOP as there has only been two incidents that I know of since leosa took effect of staff using firearms off duty and as far as I know there has never been any court ruling about if the BOP has to back staff who use a fire arm off duty.

    Comment


    • Knightwolf
      Knightwolf commented
      Editing a comment
      Lol yeah, that sounds about right...

    • Keyturner
      Keyturner commented
      Editing a comment
      The Attorney General just clarified that BOP staff are covered under LEOSA, which is a federal law. That does not mean the Bureau of Prisons authorizes its staff to carry off duty. Think of LEOSA as having a CCW pretty much.

  • Originally posted by bopstaff15 View Post
    The BOP has already said if you use your firearm off duty they will not back you. The BOP still claim that the BOP does not authorize staff to carry off duty and has no policy on off duty carry. The only policy the BOP has is on carrying to and from work. The BOP claims that leosa authorizes staff to carry off duty .It took a memo from the Attorney General when leosa was passed to get the BOP to say staff was covered under the law. I do not understand how the BOP thinks that they do not authorize staff to carry off duty as the Attorney General said we are covered under leosa and the Attorney General is over the DOJ and the BOP is a component of the DOJ. Now as far as saying they will not back staff who use a weapon off duty I do not know how well that will work for the BOP as there has only been two incidents that I know of since leosa took effect of staff using firearms off duty and as far as I know there has never been any court ruling about if the BOP has to back staff who use a fire arm off duty.
    BOPstaff15, respectfully. Not sure where your getting BOP says employees are not authorized to carry under LEOSA. It's not that negative. While there were some bumps in 2005 it wasn't just BOP. The issue was in 2005 the Director (Lappin who I had as a Warden at one time) and his staff tried to resist but due to policy (PS 5510.15) hat gave BOP Statutory Powera of arrest they (BOP) could not fight it. So they issued out seperate creditials that had LEO on them. The there was a disagreement between BOP and AFGE CPL33 (several versions have been floated so pick one( Anywhoo BOP required everyo e to turn the LEO marked creditials back. About that time the memo came out from Adhcroft the Attorney General at the time which is what you find on Sallyport along with about 10 pages of BOP memo psychobabble about if you cant purchase guns in your jurisdiction they (BOP) won't provide letter head (guess places like NY city and the lime a little harder to buy)

    As far as being covered in a shooting since BOP does not "require" one to carry off duty they shouldn't have to cover anyone. The exception is if it would involve a former inmate I'd suspect they wouldn't have a choice however a good shoot is a good shoot. Even agencies that require off duty carry and would legally cover the employee would bot cover if it's a bad shoot so not sure what the issue is with people complaining.

    LEOSA is a simple priviledge and the only problem is staff (both Admin and line type) insert their opinion or ego into it and that's they only thing that really muddies the waters. So I presume that's where you were going and then it's not BOP it's just one dumb*****

    Keyturner, BOP can not restrict staff from carrying under LEOSA because as you stated its Federal Law. The only way is to take away one of the 6 specifications which they can not unless Congress gets involved and changes.

    The only restriction on BOP staff is BOP (see above as they don't require off dirt carry) will not provide department letterhead etc that some jurisdictions require that have more restricted firearms purchase requirements the employee has to jump through whatever hoops required for Joe Civilian does to buy.
    Last edited by in625shooter; 12-11-2019, 08:12 AM.

    Comment


    • From my understanding is if a BOP staff member uses his or her personal firearm off duty the DOJ will not provide any legal representation at all even if it is a justified use of deadly force. Leosa is not a law that covers the use of force and simply just gives a LEO the legal right to carry a personal firearm concealed with no state issued permit.

      May I suggest getting your state concealed permit and some sort of professional liability insurance because you can bet that who ever you shoot, the person you shot (or their family) will find out you are a BOP employee and sue you. The DOJ will not help you for any off duty shooting.

      Comment


      • in625shooter I have heard exec staff say many times the BOP does not authorize off duty carry. When in training in Denver I have heard BOP legal staff state the BOP does not authorize off duty carry that leosa is what allows us to off duty carry that is the law and separate from the BOP and that the BOP does not authorize off duty carry but due to the law there is nothing the BOP can do to staff for carrying off duty. As far as the separate leosa id the BOP pushed back when the BOP was told we were covered under leosa all that was is a plot to keep staff from carrying off duty because each institution only received like 20 of the id's to hand out to staff . Luckily the union took care of that pretty quick as it was outside of leosa which did not state that you needed a separate id to carry concealed and at the time and leosa did not state that the id had to state you was a law enforcement officer at that time. Not until leosa was amended did the law state your id had to state law enforcement officer on it. I believe that was around 2013 when leosa was amended which states the id had to state the person was a law enforcement officer. I never stated that BOP staff are required to off duty carry or did I state BOP staff was not covered under leosa nor did I stated the BOP claims that staff are not covered by leosa.

        Comment


        • What is all this debate about? All LEOSA does it allow off duty Law Enforcement Officers to carry there personal firearm over State Lines so long as it’s concealed. It has nothing to do with your job or weather you can arrest someone off duty blah blah blah. What you do off duty is your own business.

          Most LEOs have a State Pistol permit too, Idk why you wouldn’t get one... I’ve had my State Permit since the second I turned 21. That clears up any issues, the State Permit allows you to OPEN CARRY which LEOSA does not (I don’t open carry outside my job).

          Also when it comes to what you’ll you do in “an active shooter situation?” Most States allow Citizens arrest for Felony’s in progress... so there ya go you are technically considered a cop if you detain them along with anyone else...


          I do not work for BOP but I don’t understand what the debate is about...
          Last edited by MrAce; 12-11-2019, 03:04 PM.

          Comment


          • Levithane
            Levithane commented
            Editing a comment
            The debate is whether or not BOP employees would garner the same support from the agency, even though they are covered under LEOSA. From the outside looking (reading other posts) it sounds like BOP is against it, despite Federal Law covering BOP employees.

            I think the central question is that if you are an employee, and involved in a justified shooting is the agency going to support you? Also, will you be vilified in the event that you're a BOP employee and don't stop a significant crime from happening if you happen to be armed?

            The handgun license argument can be made, but it was indicated to me when I took the class that you are not obligated to intervene in the event of malicious activity. I.E armed assailant shows up in a gas station your'e at, you aren't obligated to intervene (as a private citizen). Now if the armed assailant is aiming their attention at you and threatening your life, its a different story.

          • pissedoff
            pissedoff commented
            Editing a comment
            BOP staff do not have a duty to act so basically a shooting could happen in front of a BOP staff member while off duty and they could just walk away and call 911. I think some have questioned if a BOP has to act and the answer is no. I would suggest all off duty BOP staff to stay out of any situations off duty if you can, be a good witness and just call 911.

        • Originally posted by bopstaff15 View Post
          in625shooter I have heard exec staff say many times the BOP does not authorize off duty carry. When in training in Denver I have heard BOP legal staff state the BOP does not authorize off duty carry that leosa is what allows us to off duty carry that is the law and separate from the BOP and that the BOP does not authorize off duty carry but due to the law there is nothing the BOP can do to staff for carrying off duty. As far as the separate leosa id the BOP pushed back when the BOP was told we were covered under leosa all that was is a plot to keep staff from carrying off duty because each institution only received like 20 of the id's to hand out to staff . Luckily the union took care of that pretty quick as it was outside of leosa which did not state that you needed a separate id to carry concealed and at the time and leosa did not state that the id had to state you was a law enforcement officer at that time. Not until leosa was amended did the law state your id had to state law enforcement officer on it. I believe that was around 2013 when leosa was amended which states the id had to state the person was a law enforcement officer. I never stated that BOP staff are required to off duty carry or did I state BOP staff was not covered under leosa nor did I stated the BOP claims that staff are not covered by leosa.
          I get it but just because they say it doesn't mean its correct. LEOSA is the law and a link is on Sallyport so they have no justification for even saying that. Lots of staff arw completely uneducated on it and it's been 15 years. Just try to educate them and show them the Attourney General Memo that has BOP, ATF Marshals and FBI directing the directors to implement it.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by MrAce View Post
            What is all this debate about? All LEOSA does it allow off duty Law Enforcement Officers to carry there personal firearm over State Lines so long as it’s concealed. It has nothing to do with your job or weather you can arrest someone off duty blah blah blah. What you do off duty is your own business.

            Most LEOs have a State Pistol permit too, Idk why you wouldn’t get one... I’ve had my State Permit since the second I turned 21. That clears up any issues, the State Permit allows you to OPEN CARRY which LEOSA does not (I don’t open carry outside my job).

            Also when it comes to what you’ll you do in “an active shooter situation?” Most States allow Citizens arrest for Felony’s in progress... so there ya go you are technically considered a cop if you detain them along with anyone else...


            I do not work for BOP but I don’t understand what the debate is about...
            It's not so much a debate its that a lot of Exec staff (and others) are either completely freaking dumb or arw personally aga iij nst LEOSA so they are of course going to throw up smoke screens to the masses. They get by with it because (and it to be a negative thingve nelly) Runors and hearsay seem to run the BOP. A lot of bad info put out by AWs or Wardens are treated as the gospel and masses run with I or twist it themselves. All of this of course could be displaced if people would simply READ the law, Program Statements and other policy themselves rather than take it as Word from the village idiots.

            My suggestion for those staff that have the exec staff is call the BOP Attorney at Glynco. Everytime I get my Lead firearms recertifiication they (the actual Attorney) gives a great class on LEOSA. He even talks about what firearms he likes to carry. They can correct a lit if supervisors are giving that much blatantly wrong info. But it shouldn't be anything more than a sporadic problem these days

            Stay safe and educate stupid when you see it

            Comment


            • There really should be no debate here. LEOSA authorizes BOP staff to carry off duty because they are considered law enforcement officers. BOP, as an agency, does not authorize off duty carry. But they have no say if you want to carry off duty under LEOSA.

              Comment


              • If you've worked for the BOP and seen some of the staff, you know why bop doesn't authorize off duty carry.

                Comment


                • LevelHeaded
                  LevelHeaded commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Lol oh they’re not all that bad...

                • in625shooter
                  in625shooter commented
                  Editing a comment
                  It's not that BOP as an agency doesn't allow off duty carry (some exec that said something wrong by law is ran with as BOP said when it was one village idiot)
                  A couple exec staff that are idiots try and say it. Unions have proven them most time and time again. That's the problem with BOP they dont even know what the law or t HK eir own policy is. That's why the Union beats them in so many cases.

                • dox1842
                  dox1842 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  "That's the problem with BOP they dont even know what the law or t HK eir own policy is."

                  I read policy for about 5 minutes a day everyday and my co-workers are surprised at how well I know policy. We got SORT members that don't even know the deadly force policy.

              • Has anyone heard the rumor about COs getting automatic 8s, competing for 9s and LTs getting automatic 12s at stand alone USPs and Complexes? This rumor has been going around my joint for a little while now just wanted to see if it’s hit other sides of the country.

                Comment


                • ChrisQuirolo
                  ChrisQuirolo commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I have heard this too, but I haven't come across anything in writing yet.
                  But it's a good idea for staff retention!
                  Last edited by ChrisQuirolo; 12-13-2019, 08:49 PM. Reason: edit

              • Originally posted by LevelHeaded View Post
                Has anyone heard the rumor about COs getting automatic 8s, competing for 9s and LTs getting automatic 12s at stand alone USPs and Complexes? This rumor has been going around my joint for a little while now just wanted to see if it’s hit other sides of the country.
                This gets regurgitated every so many years. back in 2002 or 2003 there was an idea gaining movement from USP Wardens to automatically give staff at USPs their GS 8 automatically . Now the Dirwctor at the time was WAY to tight to spend money (he is one of the reasons BOP is in the problem they are) So that idea dropped off the radar.

                The Warden at Leavenworth was old school realizing USP staff deal with more than low and medium facilities so on an 8 board for 5 spots he promoted everyone that BQd which was like 30 some staff. Region and Central Office went crazy and he told the. to pound sand it's his joint. Good news for them but bad thing they didnt have n 8 board for years. Because of that and then fact in 2005 Leavenworth ws down graded to a medium so staff levels were reduced.

                They are just "mentioning" the automatic promotions. At one time in the late 1980s and early 1990s it did happen but they quit at some point around 1992ish

                So again stay in BOP or any agency and stuff xones back up time to time. Doubt it gains traction though

                Comment


                • The problem with the BOP is that if you are on the scene of a incident and it gets out in the news you were armed and worked for the BOP and did not intervene the BOP would dis own you. If you did get involved the BOP would dis own you. Then if you did get involved and cleared of any wrong doing the BOP would have its own internal investigation and even though you cleared of any street charges the BOP would find you guilty during there internal investigation of something and crucify you. So if you work for the BOP it is dam if you do and dam if you don't sitution. That is why you should have professional liability insurance. To the BOP all they care about is if you make them look bad in public. I have seen staff get in trouble off duty many time and either the charges are dropped or they have been found not guilty but the BOP conduct there own internal investigation and find the staff guilty punish them.
                  ​​​​​

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by bopstaff15 View Post
                    The problem with the BOP is that if you are on the scene of a incident and it gets out in the news you were armed and worked for the BOP and did not intervene the BOP would dis own you. If you did get involved the BOP would dis own you. Then if you did get involved and cleared of any wrong doing the BOP would have its own internal investigation and even though you cleared of any street charges the BOP would find you guilty during there internal investigation of something and crucify you. So if you work for the BOP it is dam if you do and dam if you don't sitution. That is why you should have professional liability insurance. To the BOP all they care about is if you make them look bad in public. I have seen staff get in trouble off duty many time and either the charges are dropped or they have been found not guilty but the BOP conduct there own internal investigation and find the staff guilty punish them.
                    ​​​​​
                    BOPstaff, respectfully your way of base. I've been in BOP for 20 years and was a LT and here is my experience. First under LEOSA as has been stated is off duty. As long as one acts within the bbn law they arw fine As far as a SIS or OIA there is nothing BOP can or would do if one was within the law and not criminally charged.

                    If one gets hooked up then of course you report bbn I but BOP wouldn't even start a case until the smoke cleard from the civilian court

                    As far as BOP will make an example of you if you. You are a private citizen so if you dont act you contract. (your a coward in my opinion)

                    If you do and something goes south again people need to realize there are no guarentees in life and anyone is responsible for every round and what actions you take so make sure you know the law and what YOU can LEGALLY do.

                    Dumb Staff running their mouth and saying dumb things don't carry over to SIS or OIA cases. The only discipline I have ever heard about and Itraveled a lit ad a SORT trainer and have seen a lot of BOP Attornies and Exec staff is there is zero cases of staff getting in trouble. In fact when LEOSA was first implemented some places were called due to confusion by local LE. One such case the BOP emoyeed was initially charged with the firearm (Which BOP and the US Attorney got involved and educated the Local PD and Prosecutors Office had to drop that charge) But what didnt get dropped was when the staff member resisted LE, was tazed and then assaulted the LE. BOP said you cant charge him for the gun but we don't condone the other behaivso.

                    That was one extreme case that happened at the get go around 2005. I have heard no factual issues other than some fear mo hering by some. Wether its tf his case getting regurgitated or the general negativity of some staff to never see the light.

                    BOP has some uneducated idiots as far a LEOsA and even their own internal policy on what we do and why. Tou just can't buy into it.

                    Comment


                    • westside popo
                      westside popo commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Proof read please!

                    • in625shooter
                      in625shooter commented
                      Editing a comment
                      My silly phone changes some things even after I correct it. Like an old girlfriend or something

                    • westside popo
                      westside popo commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Mine does it too. ****es me off every time!

                    • pissedoff
                      pissedoff commented
                      Editing a comment
                      An off duty shooting would be a case by case thing for me. On the one side of the coin if there was an active shooter and it was do or die, I would deploy my weapon system and use deadly force. On the other side of that coin if some street thug was robbing another street thug at gun point I would hightail it out of there, while maintaining my situational awareness, find cover and concealment and call 911.

                      Carrying a firearm as a private citizen doesn’t make you a NAVY SEAL, Delta operator or a SWAT officer. I wouldn’t trust most of the BOP staff in a high stressful deadly force shooting and the reason why is the lack of training. Shooting once a year is not training.
                      Last edited by pissedoff; 12-17-2019, 08:24 AM.

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