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NYS CO Carry under HR 218

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  • NYS CO Carry under HR 218

    Has any NYS CO's carried out of State under the H R 218 Law? If so, did you have any issues? I'm planning a trip and was going to carry, but while discussing this at work, Some felt we do not qualify while others feel we do. Just looking for other opinions. When I read the law HR 218, I interpet it that we do qualify. Again looking for other opinions.
    Last edited by Redsox Sgt; 09-12-2009, 10:59 PM. Reason: typo

  • #2
    Unless you're planning a trip to Iraq, you're better off leaving it at home.
    Doing Life On The Installment Plan.

    Comment


    • #3
      Well under H.R. 218 you’re covered but it has to be with the weapon you qualified with which means the .38 Smith and Wesson with a 4 inch barrel, unless you’re C.E.R.T. and that doesn’t stop a cop in Ohio from arresting you. Cops do not like this law. It essentially allows Jed the sheriff deputy from some po dunk town in the middle of nowhere, whose only qualification is his second cousin Billy bob whom is the sheriff. Now this dude can carry a gun anywhere he wants! I feel safer already. They arrest you and tie you up in court ultimately you’ll be found innocent but at what cost and how much is it worth.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by UnJustBaton View Post
        Well under H.R. 218 you’re covered but it has to be with the weapon you qualified with which means the .38 Smith and Wesson with a 4 inch barrel, unless you’re C.E.R.T. and that doesn’t stop a cop in Ohio from arresting you.
        Not so. Read 18 USC 926B: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18...6---B000-.html

        Originally posted by UnJustBaton View Post
        Cops do not like this law.
        Also generally incorrect. Most cops want to carry their weapons out of state, so they like this law. However, in many states corrections officers do not meet the federal definition of "law enforcement officer" and are not allowed to carry weapons off duty. So you may run into trouble in those states. When there is an issue, expect your department to be called.
        Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
        Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

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        • #5
          "Also generally incorrect. Most cops want to carry their weapons out of state, so they like this law" Well they may like the right for them (qualified trained police officers) to carry across state lines, most still do not want others (Billy Bob) to carry into their jurisdiction. Some states have laws that are too loose with what they qualify as "Law Enforcement.”(However, in many states corrections officers do not meet the federal definition of "law enforcement officer" and are not allowed to carry weapons off duty. So you may run into trouble in those states." I think you make my point for me there! However Section 2 Sub section C paragraph 1 (“is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest.”) The whole thing is just too loose and undefined which is why I said “They can arrest you and tie you up in court, ultimately you’ll be found innocent but at what cost and how much is it worth?” DAL you’re a sworn police officer how do you feel about Billy Bob in your neighborhood toting a concealed weapon with little if any actual training? Also under Section D sub Section B Identification required (“a certification issued by the State in which the individual resides that indicates that the individual has, not less recently than one year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the State to meet the standards established by the State for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm.”) So yes it has to be a weapon you are qualified with by the state you reside in. You have quoted me as being wrong I believe I have shown otherwise.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by UnJustBaton View Post
            "Also generally incorrect. Most cops want to carry their weapons out of state, so they like this law" Well they may like the right for them (qualified trained police officers) to carry across state lines, most still do not want others (Billy Bob) to carry into their jurisdiction.
            Frankly, unless he does something stupid, I will never know and will not care. There are a lot of people running around with illegally concealed weapons who are more threatening than Billy Bob.

            Also under Section D sub Section B Identification required (“a certification issued by the State in which the individual resides that indicates that the individual has, not less recently than one year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the State to meet the standards established by the State for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm.”) So yes it has to be a weapon you are qualified with by the state you reside in. You have quoted me as being wrong I believe I have shown otherwise.
            You are reading from the wrong statute. 18 USC 926C, from which you quote, applies to retired law enforcement officers. 18 USC 926B, to which I provided a link, applies to active law enforcement officers. It says nothing about having to qualify with a firearm, and nothing about type of firearm.
            Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
            Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

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            • #7
              So then as long as you don’t see something happen you don’t care? I didn’t see that drug dealer selling to those kids, I didn’t see that guy driving drunk, and I never saw that john picking up that hooker. Guess it never happened. Awesome good for you! You carry a concealed weapon into another state you better make sure you have you i's dotted and you t's crossed. Word of advice, be qualified! Find you best W.T.O. and ask him.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by UnJustBaton View Post
                So then as long as you don’t see something happen you don’t care? I didn’t see that drug dealer selling to those kids, I didn’t see that guy driving drunk, and I never saw that john picking up that hooker. Guess it never happened. Awesome good for you! You carry a concealed weapon into another state you better make sure you have you i's dotted and you t's crossed. Word of advice, be qualified! Find you best W.T.O. and ask him.
                I did not say that I do not care about what I do not see. I don't care about an out-of-state LEO who legally can carry a firearm doing so, even if his abilities leave much to be desired.

                Long before HR 218 was enacted, there was a certain amount of reciprocity as a matter of fact. Officers in New York City and Texas, for example, asked me if I was carrying a weapon and encouraged me to do so when I told them I was not.

                I know of no agency in California that issues certificates to active officers saying that they have qualified.

                I am a lawyer. I have researched HR 218 extensively. I follow active developments on the interpretation of HR 218 because they affect department policy.

                What are your qualifications?
                Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
                Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

                Comment


                • #9
                  This law is another example of the government putting the carriage before the horse. There should have been national standards put in place for LEO’s before this law. I’m all for having as many qualified LEO’s carrying weapons in as many places as possible, however this law leaves a lot to be desired. I don’t want some half retarded cowboy with a gun in my town, trying to have show downs at high noon! I’m sure your qualification on the subject supersedes mine,(according to your profile) but to blindly tell a sergeant that it’s A ok, and he won’t have any problems is irresponsible. Is it legal to carry under this law yes. Will you have any problems I hope not, but get that 1 renegade cop who wants to make a name for his self, and it’s possible. If you feel it’s necessary to carry do so with caution and make sure you’re in the right. Our WTO told us you could only carry what you were qualified with, and frankly his word means more to me than yours.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by UnJustBaton View Post
                    but to blindly tell a sergeant that it’s A ok, and he won’t have any problems is irresponsible.
                    I did not say that he would not have any problems; to the contrary, I stated that he might have problems in states that do not allow the corrections officers to carry firearms off duty. I cannot evaluate that risk, nor do I know how important it is to the person asking the question that he be armed.

                    If you want to know whether there have been problems for corrections officers, I suggest you contact the legal counsel for your union or for the CCPOA, which probably is the largest union of corrections officers.

                    I have not heard of problems for police officers other than the case from Sturgis, South Dakota, where the charges ultimately were dismissed. In that case, a sergeant from Washington shot a biker in a bar, in self-defense. I would say that he is glad that he was armed, even if he had to defend himself in court.
                    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
                    Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Ask your WTO who you know is trained on it. Your always better safe than sorry.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I asked one of our WTO's about this. He stated to me that the weapon would have to be listed on your badge (C Form-as opposed to a County issued pistol permit) in order to qualify for HR 218. He further stated that, as long as you are qualified with the department handgun (in this case the S&W Model 10), then department rules/regs allow you to carry any handgun the fires modern smokeless cartridges on your badge. So, what I got out of this conversation is that as long as you are qualified with the dept handgun, then you can put "any handgun that fires modern smokeless cartridges" on your badge and fulfill the requirements of HR 218. He also said that you would have to carry your weapons qualification card with you along with your ID.
                        Last edited by Jonathan; 09-13-2009, 05:15 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by UnJustBaton View Post
                          This law is another example of the government putting the carriage before the horse. There should have been national standards put in place for LEO’s before this law. I’m all for having as many qualified LEO’s carrying weapons in as many places as possible, however this law leaves a lot to be desired. I don’t want some half retarded cowboy with a gun in my town, trying to have show downs at high noon! I’m sure your qualification on the subject supersedes mine,(according to your profile) but to blindly tell a sergeant that it’s A ok, and he won’t have any problems is irresponsible. Is it legal to carry under this law yes. Will you have any problems I hope not, but get that 1 renegade cop who wants to make a name for his self, and it’s possible. If you feel it’s necessary to carry do so with caution and make sure you’re in the right. Our WTO told us you could only carry what you were qualified with, and frankly his word means more to me than yours.

                          Ok I’m a little offended. What the heck bro. do you not have any respect for your brothers in blue? "Half retarded cowboy”. Are you kidding me? Just because the officer may be from a small town/county in the southern United States does not mean they will be acting a fool in your city. That’s like me thinking you’re on the take because you work in NYC. It’s stereotyping and that’s not ok. I think you need to step out of your big city mindset, and take a look at your brothers for what they are, professionals, not who you perceive them to be. Which as it sounds you have absolutely no respect for. Grow up pal, or get out of my business.
                          _____________________________________________
                          RIP Officer R.K Pitts
                          Fairfield Police Dept California
                          my father, my hero, greatest cop who ever lived


                          The above comments reflect the personal and unofficial opinions of the poster; and in no way should be taken to indicate any opinion or policy of any government agency.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Well be offended, then, go do some traveling and meet some of the people they give badges to. The fact remains that not all places put high standards on their LEO's and not all places have specialized training. There are still places that just give you a gun and a badge and say there you go now you’re a cop. In my line of work you give someone the benefit of a doubt and you get a shank in your back. Your living in fantasy land where everyone is nice and proper and it rains gum drops. If there were national standards in place, that had to be met to get a badge, then I would be all for it. You need to learn to separate yourself from those I'm talking about. If you had to qualify with your weapon, and are trained in the use of deadly physical force. Then I’m not talking about you. I respect everyone with a badge because mostly it means you want to do your part to protect society. For some it’s just a paycheck and they scare the hell out of me. At least with a crook you know he’s a crook!
                            Last edited by UnJustBaton; 09-13-2009, 06:19 PM. Reason: typo

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by TXLawdog77 View Post
                              Ok I’m a little offended. What the heck bro. do you not have any respect for your brothers in blue? "Half retarded cowboy”. Are you kidding me? Just because the officer may be from a small town/county in the southern United States does not mean they will be acting a fool in your city. That’s like me thinking you’re on the take because you work in NYC. It’s stereotyping and that’s not ok. I think you need to step out of your big city mindset, and take a look at your brothers for what they are, professionals, not who you perceive them to be. Which as it sounds you have absolutely no respect for. Grow up pal, or get out of my business.
                              I think you would find a different attitude at NYPD or other police departments in New York that regularly encounter visiting law enforcement officers. They are not so xenophobic.
                              Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
                              Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

                              Comment

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