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  • hokay... *female* rookies?

    Hi all... long-time-ago-poster, longer lurker.

    I've been on the road for a brief stint a year ago (6 mo training commission with my SO--full police powers, sworn etc.) and have 3 years admin with one PD, and 6 years Dispatch experience... hundreds of hours of ride-along before my certification course, and a couple hundred since...

    BUT... I'm going back on the road Monday morning bright and shiny at 0800. Small rural dept with just enough stuff to be fun and keep you on your toes.

    Read lots of threads here... some great advice, some chuckles, some thoughts provoked... (now that's dangerous!) But what I'm wondering is if anyone has FEMALE specific experience/advice for rooks?

    I'm not a sweet lil' thang, so I don't *tend* to get messed with in uniform. I'm more of the type they'd refer to as 'built like a brick sh*thouse' I've had baton and OC spray certifications. But I feel like boys have the advantage when it comes to hands-on... both in predicting it, and 'instinctive reactions' to it.

    I have no qualms about using certain tools to my advantage--i.e. I carry hinged cuffs for the leverage advantage.

    Any other suggestions? Tricks? Tools?

  • #2
    Well not female specific but good for anyone. Knees work wonders for dropping people a nice good angle kick right behind it or right in the thigh will work unless their high or can block the pain. Get good at reading body language and a parties eyes for those will tell you what they plan on doing a good portion of the time.
    Professionalism always, courtesy until it's time not to be.

    Comment


    • #3
      Carry a taser, remember a taser (on our force continuum) is the same as physical control.

      Also remember that size of the suspect, and the size of the officer is a deciding factor on what level of force to use.

      Hmm built like a brick sh*thouse? I thought that meant stacked? LOL

      The only female from my academy is a good friend of mine, we work in the same dept. she is....ok on hands on, but she is quicker to use the baton or OC than some guys are, but she is also 5'4".

      I have no bias's against females as LEO, same as males, I judge em on a case by case basis, just remember that video of the female on that traffic stop that gets pummeled by that large black guy. Yes she got sucker punched, but yes she's back on the job.

      Don't know if any of that helps, lol kinda rambling.
      Illegitimi non carborundum - Don't let the bastards grind you down.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Caspertoo
        Hmm built like a brick sh*thouse? I thought that meant stacked? LOL
        Hm. Well, that too... (g-damned custom vests COST... ) Up he'ah I think the phrase is used more for those of us who are of the more... um... workhorse build.

        I'm 5'4" too. No tasers. Pepper spray is my friend though. I just got the baton cert, so have to practice ALOT to get comfortable with it.

        The REAL difference between men and women police is all about belt keepers. And property checks. Think about it.

        Comment


        • #5
          Keep a good reactionary gap, that's something A LOT of Officers forget, myself included. Don't be afraid to handcuff anyone even if you don't plan to arrest them. Don't be afraid to call for backup. Don't be afraid to use your OC, if they start refusing commands, hose 'em. It's much easier to fight someone if they can't see and breath, it levels the playing field.
          "He who controls others may be powerful, but he who has mastered himself is mightier still"

          -Lao Tzu

          "God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference."

          -Reinhold Niebuhr

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by haus409
            Keep a good reactionary gap, that's something A LOT of Officers forget, myself included.
            Words of wisdom, always good to remember the basics of officer safety. Jeez no tasers? Ouch.
            Illegitimi non carborundum - Don't let the bastards grind you down.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Caspertoo
              Words of wisdom, always good to remember the basics of officer safety. Jeez no tasers? Ouch.

              That is really the key is the officer safety. Keep your distances enough for a reaction, and if someone is posturing for a fight, call for backup and take the fight to them. You dont have to wait for them to bring it to you.

              My first coach(who was also a female) told me, and so did all my other coaches, being a female, you will be able to articulate a greater use of force than male officers can when you are up against a larger threat. She said it is better to go past and take quick control, than to not use enough force and have the threat kick your @$$. This is probably why others have said they see female officer go to the asp sooner than the male counterparts do.

              Good luck out there and stay safe!

              Comment


              • #8
                I agree with the above post. Being a female, I have no problem going to my asp or my spray. I know some of the guys I work with would rather "fight to the death" than have to take theirs out. This mostly applies if the bad guy doesnt have any weapons of course. It is a lot easier for a female to articulate why she sprayed someone or why she beat the hell out of them with her asp. Everyone has their own way of doing things. My main priority is to go home at the end of the shift, so I have no problem doing whatever it takes, and I believe I would think that way even if I was a guy.

                I like to always keep plenty of distance and make sure I never ever wind up on my back. In my area, I sometimes work alone or the closest trooper may be 20-30 mins away. I still believe anyone's best weapon is their mouth, so I try to use my verbal skills and rely on them. You would be suprised how much compliance you get if you make the extra effort to talk to someone like a human being and give them every chance to comply. If they are still being non-compliant, well then, everyone knows what happens next!!!!
                "...I'd never let you down, even if I could. I'd give up everything if only for your good..." 3 Doors Down

                "Strength is when your body gives out and your heart and your mind take over"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by goober
                  Hi all... long-time-ago-poster, longer lurker.

                  I've been on the road for a brief stint a year ago (6 mo training commission with my SO--full police powers, sworn etc.) and have 3 years admin with one PD, and 6 years Dispatch experience... hundreds of hours of ride-along before my certification course, and a couple hundred since...

                  BUT... I'm going back on the road Monday morning bright and shiny at 0800. Small rural dept with just enough stuff to be fun and keep you on your toes.

                  Read lots of threads here... some great advice, some chuckles, some thoughts provoked... (now that's dangerous!) But what I'm wondering is if anyone has FEMALE specific experience/advice for rooks?

                  I'm not a sweet lil' thang, so I don't *tend* to get messed with in uniform. I'm more of the type they'd refer to as 'built like a brick sh*thouse' I've had baton and OC spray certifications. But I feel like boys have the advantage when it comes to hands-on... both in predicting it, and 'instinctive reactions' to it.

                  I have no qualms about using certain tools to my advantage--i.e. I carry hinged cuffs for the leverage advantage.

                  Any other suggestions? Tricks? Tools?
                  I may get flamed for this, but what the hell, life is short!

                  WHY do women have to post questions like this!!! Good Lord, we already have a difficult enough time breaking into the depts and being treated as an equal. Do you HAVE to ask how to act because you are a girl??

                  You want some advice on how to act?

                  BE CONFIDENT!

                  BE STRONG MINDED!

                  BE STRONG WILLED!

                  DON'T ACT LIKE YOU ARE A GIRL!

                  There are just as many male officers that don't have HE-MAN strength as there are female officers. But they do the job just as well as the next guy.

                  How in the hell do you figure that guys have better "instinctive reactions" than girls? Hello, are you a mother?? I can feel **** hitting the fan, a good 5 minutes before it flings!

                  If you are looking for a "poor me I'm just a girl" job, go be a secretary and leave LE for those females that not just want to kick ***, but can kick ***!
                  When I'll be the girl that you love, you'll be the boy that I hate...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I think she was just looking to get some advice on how to do some things differently. I dont have a problem asking other female LEO's how they do certain things on the job. It doesn't mean I don't have confidence or that I'm not strong-minded. Hell I'll go toe to toe with anyone if I have to do! If everyone took your advice, we wouldn't have this forum because their would be no one asking for advice on different things such as training, practical experiences, physical fitness, etc...Cut her some slack, posting in the rookie section, she is obviously new at the profession and is looking for some good advice.
                    "...I'd never let you down, even if I could. I'd give up everything if only for your good..." 3 Doors Down

                    "Strength is when your body gives out and your heart and your mind take over"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by nctroop14
                      I think she was just looking to get some advice on how to do some things differently. I dont have a problem asking other female LEO's how they do certain things on the job. It doesn't mean I don't have confidence or that I'm not strong-minded. Hell I'll go toe to toe with anyone if I have to do! If everyone took your advice, we wouldn't have this forum because their would be no one asking for advice on different things such as training, practical experiences, physical fitness, etc...Cut her some slack, posting in the rookie section, she is obviously new at the profession and is looking for some good advice.
                      I wasn't saying don't ask advice. I ask stupid questions and occasionally a good one, all the time. To me is just seemed like she was worried about being a girl out on the streets. If ANY person trains hard, soaks in the training, and uses it on the street then they will succeed, male or female alike.

                      Females do have strength disadvantages, but we do have other ways to compensate for it.
                      When I'll be the girl that you love, you'll be the boy that I hate...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Well, Quopper, it's because I disagree. I'm not equal to a man in the physical department. Doesn't make me less of a cop. But it sure would be delusional to say I am 'the same.'

                        Am I strong? Yes. Stronger than some of the guys I work with? Yes. I lug around 100lb bags of grain and bales of hay etc., on a daily basis. But it's core strength vs. upper body strength. Do I know how to fight dirty? NO. Can I run and catch a badguy in a foot chase like most of my peers? Not a snowball's chance in hell. (but then, that's what K-9's are for.) Can I negotiate better than most of them? Absolutely. De-escalate a scene? Usually. Write a better report? By a damn sight.

                        That's why I'm asking.

                        I'm looking for some tactical advice.
                        I feel like boys have the advantage when it comes to hands-on... both in predicting it, and 'instinctive reactions' to it.

                        I have no qualms about using certain tools to my advantage--i.e. I carry hinged cuffs for the leverage advantage.

                        Any other suggestions? Tricks? Tools?
                        Perhaps I should've worded it "for short but thick" rookies? Would that be less offensive? (and yes, take it whichever way you want ) I've had my preliminary 100 Hr Certification course, and 6mos of FTO with the SO. I got very little DT training. Silly me for wanting some words of wisdom foremost in my mind before hitting the road tomorrow ayem.

                        I've probably got a decade or close to two of life on most of the rookies here. Getting on the road is my mid-life crisis fulfilled. I am very, very comfortable being a woman in a man's world. I have their respect, and most of my peers have said they'd take me for backup in a heartbeat--THAT is what matters.

                        I don't feel a need to be 'equal.' And in the depts I work in, I have absolutely no issues being accepted--and I'm actually valued for my differences. Female officers are few and far between up here. I feel no need whatsoever to be a man, or the same as a man. We each have our strengths, and they compliment each other. No, I'm not a mother either... speaking of stereotypes...
                        Last edited by goober; 08-07-2005, 11:34 AM. Reason: speeling, it's early yet

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by goober
                          Do I know how to fight dirty? NO.
                          THEN LEARN HOW! Find some training close to your area, hell if their isn't any then at least learn some form of "dirty" martial arts. NOT self-defense! This stuff is offered damn near anywhere you go, my suggestion would be to learn it. I have HOURS of training in ground fighting, and it helps to know this. Just remember one thing - if you are in a dirty fight, there are NO rules! Imagine how you would attack a person that just raped your mother, and then KICK ***! If it is a matter of life or death, it's YOUR life, f*ck everyone else!

                          Originally posted by goober
                          Perhaps I should've worded it "for short but thick" rookies? Would that be less offensive? (and yes, take it whichever way you want ) I've had my preliminary 100 Hr Certification course, and 6mos of FTO with the SO. I got very little DT training. Silly me for wanting some words of wisdom foremost in my mind before hitting the road tomorrow ayem.
                          The "female" thing has been beaten to death so bad on here, yes it does make me touchy. I know I am not an equal to the big guys, but I know that I don't portray the attitude that I am less. I portray the attitude that if you f*ck with me, it still won't be pretty.

                          I'm sorry to hear that you got very little training, male or female, depts need to care enough about their officers to give them ALL levels of training to survive, and though my gun is important, I will be "fighting" hands on more than I am pulling my weapon.

                          I wasn't knocking you wanting advice, I was knocking the "poor girl" attitude I read into your post. Forgive me, it was late last night. I have no issues with admitting if I overstepped or overread, but do me a favor and remember you are as strong as you want to be!

                          Originally posted by goober
                          I've probably got a decade or close to two of life on most of the rookies here. Getting on the road is my mid-life crisis fulfilled. ...... No, I'm not a mother either... speaking of stereotypes...
                          The life experience is great, but watch how you word the mid-life crisis thing. Makes it appear as though this is an outlet but not a passion, for your life.

                          I wasn't stereotyping by stating "mother". I am a mother, this has helped me TREMENDOUSLY. My instincts, gut-reactions, and need to survive is one hundred fold because of my child. I'm actually sorry that you don't understand how positive it is to be a mother and an LEO.

                          I wish you the best tomorrow am and through out your career. If I appear bitchy, sorry, I probably am!
                          When I'll be the girl that you love, you'll be the boy that I hate...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            nah... not too beeyatchy. Work mids???

                            I didn't realize the topic had been done to death... I tried searching, and maybe didn't search *right* but couldnt' really come up with relevant threads.

                            I *do* find it interesting, and I think it really, REALLY depends on where you are working, whether you feel it is really tough being accepted as a woman on the job or not. I'm in a very rural, very backwards area. Women on the road are appreciated and SOUGHT after. (trying to make EOE quota? ? ) We are treated well, and certainly not looked down upon, except by the really old school, older guys. I imagine it's quite different in other parts of the country or in big cities etc.

                            And as I said, *so far* I haven't had a problem with anyone in the public not taking me VERY seriously. It's really the first/only time in my life where being bigger and a little butch-seeming (read--tomboyish??) has been an advantage. I'll take EVERY one I can get. First day on FTO with the SO, we took a stoopid disorderly/harrasment/threatening complaint, and me and the SP Rookie also in FTO took the "big" guy. Well over 6 feet, dumb and drunk. Another time out, other responding officers thought I was gonna dump a guy. It wasn't actually occurring to me, but it was a nice thought.

                            As far as my midlife crisis--I mean it only in that I've WANTED to do this forever. I have a picture of me at about 8 years old dressed up for Halloween as a mounted patrol... (I tell my mother if she shows that to ANYONE I'll hunt her down and kill her...) My Dad was a cop for 37 years and I've always, always wanted it, but somewhere along the line lost faith in myself and my abilities. When I not only made it through the 100hr Cert course, but excelled, I realized I could actually be on the road. (I'd taken the course to be a better/safer dispatcher, and to TEACH officer safety stuff for dispatch--but didn't have the 'credentials)

                            At any rate. I *am* comfortable in myself to know that there are things I am just NOT good at. And I'm an approaching-middle-aged woman, short and stout, not a 20-something buff male cop.

                            I will try to figure out how to get the hands-on training. My *tool* training baton, OC, even firearms) has been very good, but the 'fighting' and defense, and offense, is sadly lacking. Personally, I *like* pepper spray, and would rather go to it than hands-on (as someone above posted)

                            As Reserves in my state, we have full police powers, take shifts, are out on patrol alone (in the boonies) and have every responsibility/power except to chase and spike. EVERY other. Yet our training is only as good as our Dept., whereas our FT peers--filling the same shifts--have an 18 week Academy. I'm hoping my new Dept has some good stuff to offer, but I won't know until tomorrow.

                            I'm nervous tonight. Happy, *good* anxious, and nervous... I bet a lot of it will be better by this time tomorrow when I have a better idea what I'm dealing with.

                            Meanwhile, any trick, shortcut, or dirty tactic that I can tuck away in the grey matter is greatly appreciated.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Just remember one thing - if you are in a dirty fight, there are NO rules! Imagine how you would attack a person that just raped your mother, and then KICK ***! If it is a matter of life or death, it's YOUR life, f*ck everyone else!
                              btw, THAT'S it. Thanks... that's the kind of stuff I'm looking for.

                              Comment

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