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Army CID v. Marine CID

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  • Army CID v. Marine CID

    As I understand it, Marine CID is a part of the Marine MPs i.e. Marine CID agents come from the Marine MPs. Marine MPs can move into and out of Marine CID. Conversely, Army CID isn't a part of the Army MPs i.e. Army CID recruits from infantry, field artillery and all the other branches -- and not just from the Army MPs. Army MPs don't move into and out of Army CID because the two are completely separate.

    What are the other differences between Army CID and Marine CID?

  • #2
    Army CID will sh**can any case they can thats not worth $1000 or more. They'll take an 07 Caddilac Escalade and depreciate it so much that its only worth $990.

    They'll also not want to pick up on any burglary or major theft, unless the police already have a subject...Once they can title someone, they get the credit. Its horsesh** if you ask me.

    Rule # 1: You cant turn a PAC clerk or a finance specialist into a "Special Agent".

    # 2: They should have to be at least an E5.

    # 3: They should require some kind of prior experience or XX many credit hours.

    MP's know nothing about law enforcement. CID knows even less. Send them all to a real 6 month academy and we'll see how much more productive everyone gets.

    A little bitter, yes, but I call it like I see it. No disrespect intended toward any prior or current MP's.

    Comment


    • #3
      I thought Army CID still reports to the provost general in charge of MP's.


      There are no marine civilian CID agents and some marine CID officers are credentialed through NCIS.
      I don't answer recruitment messages....

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      • #4
        I found this link on USAJOBS. It does not appear to be NCIS, but rather an 1811 that is stationed on a Marine Corps Base (Albany, GA in this case). I had not seen it. It is for status candidates (I am one), but civilians none the less. Interesting.

        http://jobsearch.usajobs.gov/getjob....0&SUBMIT1.y=20
        Gimme a Diablo sammich and a Dr. Pepper, and make it snappy - I'm in a gotd**n hurry!

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        • #5
          Marine CID investigators are selected from Marine MP's. After successfully finishing screening and OJT under an accredited CID investigator, they are sent to Army CID agent school, and are trained to the same level as Army SA's. After graduation, they return to their duty station and work mostly military crimes, misdemeanors, and lesser felonies under the auspices of the Provost Marshal (similar to Army MPI), or they deploy overseas with a unit. Serious felonies and all deaths (except traffic deaths) are referred to NCIS.

          NCIS does not report to the Provost Marshal.

          Some time during their career, Marine Corps CID investigators (enlisted and warrant officers) may be selected to serve a tour as an NCIS special agent. This tour can last anywhere from 3 years or longer. As an NCIS special agent, Marine Special Agents (MSA's) work the same kind of cases as their civilian counterparts, and carry the same kind of credentials, badge, and weapon. They are required to maintain Marine Corps essential subjects, physical training, and appearance standards (unless on an UC assignment). Eventually, MSA's complete their NCIS tour and return to Marine CID.

          The only real difference between MSA's and their civilian counterparts is that the military agents don't have statutory powers of arrest, unlike their civilian counterparts. Of course, they can 'apprehend' military suspects anywhere, and 'detain' civilian law breakers aboard the military installation.

          Marine CID investigators are sergeants, staff NCO's (E-6 & above), and warrant officers. There are no commissioned Marine CID investigators (although former CID investigators can keep the CID MOS as a secondary if they happen to get commissioned).

          There are a few civilian Marine CID investigators around. There will be a lot more in the future, since the Marines are hiring civilian LE personnel to free Marines for deploying overseas. (click on Big Trooper's link). Those civilian 1811's will perform the same kind of duties as Marine CID investigators, under the auspices of the Provost Marshal.

          125
          Last edited by Woofdog; 08-03-2008, 07:39 AM.
          Politically Correct? No.

          Truthful? Yes!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Unit453 View Post
            Army CID will sh**can any case they can thats not worth $1000 or more. They'll take an 07 Caddilac Escalade and depreciate it so much that its only worth $990.

            They'll also not want to pick up on any burglary or major theft, unless the police already have a subject...Once they can title someone, they get the credit. Its horsesh** if you ask me.

            Rule # 1: You cant turn a PAC clerk or a finance specialist into a "Special Agent".

            # 2: They should have to be at least an E5.

            # 3: They should require some kind of prior experience or XX many credit hours.

            MP's know nothing about law enforcement. CID knows even less. Send them all to a real 6 month academy and we'll see how much more productive everyone gets.

            A little bitter, yes, but I call it like I see it. No disrespect intended toward any prior or current MP's.
            Its not so much sht canning as it is spelled out in AR 195-2 what CID investigates. Its spelled out in black and white, CID investigates all "felony" level crimes, i.e. anything punishable by 1 year or more confinement or death. As well as larceny of private property valued at 1000 dollars or more, or larceny of government property valued at 1000 dollars or more, or a sensitive item. It makes sense to to the CID Handoff when you have an office, that were it not for the deployments, would have a full strength office to handle its case load adequetly. But as it is, CID has to send Agents downrange as well, which lowers the manpower that is severely needed for casework. If you have never worked a CID case, you can't understand the time that goes into it. Its not like a civililan case, everything you do, literally, including thinking, gets documented. Anyone that has worked a CID case understands what I'm talking about

            You can turn anyone into a "SA" with ASAC (Apprentice Special Agents Course) Its like every other job in the world, you learn more from doing it than you do from a school.

            CID is not currently taking anyone over E-5 as they are only authorized so many E-9's, E-8's, E-7's, and E-6's. You have to obtain a Waiver, which is next to impossible to get. For CID it is required XX credit hours. Right now its 60 for non MP and 15 for MP (As most MP's have a basic idea of how the military justice system works.) www.cid.army.mil has all the requirements. I work for CID as a DST investigator (I only work dope) so I kind of have an idea of how CID works. Most SA's are not accredited until after completing at least 1 year apprenticeship period, sometimes more, rarely less.

            Although I do have to say, the biggest mistake CID is making right now is accepting MP Investigators with 2 years investigative experiance, E-6 and above, as SA Warrant Officers. That means someone who really has no idea how to run a CID case (as they are COMPLETELY differant than MPI cases, MPI uses COPS, CID uses a differant system, differant case organization, its own special reg, etc.) is going to be in charge of Agents and is supposed to teach, coach, and mentor them. BIG MISTAKE.
            Want to start a website? I run Host Lonestar.
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            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by inveich View Post
              Its not so much sht canning as it is spelled out in AR 195-2 what CID investigates. Its spelled out in black and white, CID investigates all "felony" level crimes, i.e. anything punishable by 1 year or more confinement or death. As well as larceny of private property valued at 1000 dollars or more, or larceny of government property valued at 1000 dollars or more, or a sensitive item. It makes sense to to the CID Handoff when you have an office, that were it not for the deployments, would have a full strength office to handle its case load adequetly. But as it is, CID has to send Agents downrange as well, which lowers the manpower that is severely needed for casework. If you have never worked a CID case, you can't understand the time that goes into it. Its not like a civililan case, everything you do, literally, including thinking, gets documented. Anyone that has worked a CID case understands what I'm talking about
              After a newbie has been a detective for about three months, the novelty quickly wears off. Here's another stack of 50 felonies for you to work -- now get cracking!!!!

              Comment


              • #8
                Marine CID is like Army MPI. They go to the same school at the USAMPS. NCIS and Army Cid have some things in common but there are major differences. The biggest being that NCIS is a civilian agency and they go to FLETC. CID agents are almost always soldiers and they train at USAMPS.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Army CID is all about case management and documentation. For every 1 hour spent doing actual investigation you do 3 to 4 hours of paperwork. Not that civilian L/E doesnt emphasis paperwork but CID is completly over the top. If you take a bathroom break while writing a report you will document it. If you drive to the PMO to pick up paperwork you will document it as time spent. I've seen it, absolutely insane.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by airasslt1865 View Post
                    Marine CID is like Army MPI. They go to the same school at the USAMPS. NCIS and Army Cid have some things in common but there are major differences. The biggest being that NCIS is a civilian agency and they go to FLETC. CID agents are almost always soldiers and they train at USAMPS.

                    Not entirely true. Marine MP's go to Army MPI school, but Marine CID investigators go to Army CID school (ASAC). Another difference is that Army MPI's don't do tours as CID agents, but Marine CID investigators do get opportunities as military NCIS agents, working serious felonies.
                    Politically Correct? No.

                    Truthful? Yes!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by dpd0779 View Post
                      Army CID is all about case management and documentation. For every 1 hour spent doing actual investigation you do 3 to 4 hours of paperwork. Not that civilian L/E doesnt emphasis paperwork but CID is completly over the top. If you take a bathroom break while writing a report you will document it. If you drive to the PMO to pick up paperwork you will document it as time spent. I've seen it, absolutely insane.
                      I can't speak for other civilian agencies, but at my department, we dot every i and cross every t. If you sneeze, it's documented. Writing 101 takes precedence in all investigations.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Army MPIs do work in Army CID units, there typically assigned to the DST team. Army CID does recruit from all mos's for a reason, same reason the Delta does it, it allows for an individual with a subject mater expereience in a specific mos to work that case or be called in to assist. I dont know how many times in I've sent out a request for an agent with specific mos experience to assist in a case, and depending on the case could be a simple call, email or their tdy to assist. One specific case involved a Bradley which due to an Bradley mechanic being part of our team, resulted in a Army wide change to procedures and fines against the manufactor, don't know an MP that would have had that information on the top of his head (and I was an MP before I went CID).

                        Oh as for CID turning raw recruits into agents. Hmm lets see, FBI, USSS, USMS, DEA, ATF, just to name a "few" that use the same procedure as less that 20% of any of their classes are prior law enforcement experienced.

                        Strange also that they'd prefer an infantry officer over an MP, but hey what do they know.

                        The point that USMC CID is alot like Army MPI is very close to the truth. It used not to be that way, but they cases they typically work are the same, as they are the ones that NIS passes down. Difference is that Marines go through the ASAC instead of the MPI course, and their typical assignments to NIS is for DST work.
                        Steve
                        Respect all ...... Fear none!!!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          While Army MPI's may be assigned to Army CID units for DST missions, they are not accredited Army CID agents while assigned there.

                          Marine CID investigators, while serving a NCIS tour, are fully accredited as NCIS special agents, and work the full range of felony crimes just like their civilian counterparts. So it is not true that Marine Special Agents (MSA's) only work DST while on their NCIS tours.

                          I have no problem with investigative agencies recruiting from outside the LE profession. After all, it's more important to have the best qualified and motivated candidates, chosen for their ability and knowledge, and of course their integrity.
                          Politically Correct? No.

                          Truthful? Yes!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            This thread is extremely informative because it points out some significant differences between Army CID and Marine CID. The two have some similarities, but are distinctly different. It would be easy to incorrectly assume that they are the same.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I'm familiar with Army CID and Army MPI, but not Marine CID. Here's an interesting read about Marine CID:
                              http://www.usmc-mccs.org/LEADERSGUID...DInvestigators

                              Comment

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