Ar 190-56

[DACP]

Just received a copy of the revised 190-56, this is a revision to the one dated 27 Sept 2006. Was just wondering if any one else has seen this version yet? (It is only in draft form right now) personally I am getting tired of all the changes yes changes needed to be made, but it seems like for the past 4 years it has been one huge circle with all of this. Just when we get something negotiated out, something new comes along and we are back at the beginning.

[Army_Soldier]

I have not seen the new version. Didn't even know there was one. Is it in PDF format?

[DACP]

No, it has not been released in PDF format yet; basically AFGE or other applicable bargaining units have 30 days to respond with comments to the PMG.
Some of the highlights are: unless you have a previous waver before a certain date you will have to attend the academy, credentials are no longer issued, the PAT has changed again the main events are run, pushups, vertical jump; alternate events include 2.5 mi walk, and a dummy drag, there are provisions for wavers but the policy stinks.

[Army_Soldier]

Some of the things in 190-56 I have not always agreed with, but who am I? It has however kept some smaller installations (like mine) from hiring a fly-by-night minimum wage paying security company to protect their Installations. (A good thing.) I have seen some guards at military bases that I wonder how they keep their job because of being... obese to put it nicely. Maybe the PAT standards will force the select few who fall into that catagory to get with the program.

That being said, I have seen many, many more soldiers on the obese side. I can't for the life of me understand how they can still remain in. They say it's gone, but I think the good ole boy system in still thriving, and are hiding, protecting, inputting wrong information or flat out ignoring soldiers who do not even come close to meeting AR 600-9 standards.

[Bearcat357]

Maybe the PAT standards will force the select few who fall into that catagory to get with the program.

There already is a PFT for Army Guards..... BUT....word came out from the PMG that if they fail....for now...they are to stay on contract....and work on the issue....

[Army_Soldier]

There already is a PFT for Army Guards..... BUT....word came out from the PMG that if they fail....for now...they are to stay on contract....and work on the issue....

Could this mean they will have their own version of the flag, weight control program and things of that nature? I.E. counseling or something to that effect, set a goal, track progress and things of that nature?

I am definately not a person who wants anyone to lose their job unless they do something to deserve it, but for those of us who work their butts off to keep and maintain the standard, it is almost a slap in the face to watch others do as they please due to being lazy or don't care and knowing nothing will be done about it.

All of my experience is on the military side of the house, but I am sure there are DOD security and LEO's that feel the same way. (Either that or I am just too set in my ways when it comes to certain standards having to be met).

[Bearcat357]

Could this mean they will have their own version of the flag, weight control program and things of that nature? I.E. counseling or something to that effect, set a goal, track progress and things of that nature?

I doubt it.....

It is supposed to be go/no go....and if you are a no go, you are canned from the contract and are not allowed to re-apply........

Thus far, the new Army directive our office got was that if they fail, they are still to be retained on the contract till further notice....and that was it...

[Army_Soldier]

Just like Big Army to put out a policy, then say stand by to stand by on dealing with it.

[DACP]

I am definately not a person who wants anyone to lose their job unless they do something to deserve it, but for those of us who work their butts off to keep and maintain the standard, it is almost a slap in the face to watch others do as they please due to being lazy or don't care and knowing nothing will be done about it.

All of my experience is on the military side of the house, but I am sure there are DOD security and LEO's that feel the same way. (Either that or I am just too set in my ways when it comes to certain standards having to be met).

The military standard is different from the Civilian standard, just as the Marines have different standards then the Army. You would be opposed to the Army applying one of the Marine standards on you. Should there be a standard yes, but when you hire someone based off of the % of their disability from the VA, then place them in a job for a number of years, you cannot expect them to do what they are asking them to do and not provide accommodations for the reason that got them the job in the first place. To me the only thing this regulation accomplishes is to make it easier for a DA civilian to lose their job and a contractor to replace them.

[Bearcat357]

To me the only thing this regulation accomplishes is to make it easier for a DA civilian to lose their job and a contractor to replace them.

DOA LEOs will not be replaced by Contractors.......never happen CONUS.... The Army will always call up NG/Reserve units to fill in if need be.....or hire more DOA LEOs.....

The Gates are a done deal with Contractors....as every Army Installation has Contractors at their gates at least for the next 4 years.....

As for my opinion......if you want to be a LEO....no matter if it is in a town, out in a county, or on an military installations, you need to meet physical fitness requirements.... The ones the Army is going to eventually put in place are not that bad.....

Just me I guess....

[Porkneck MP]

You are right, we do need some standards. 350 lbs officers taking two shots of insulin for diabetes a day is probably not a good thing for a Road Officer. I saw this one guy bend over on the pistol range and split his BDU pants from calf to the other calf, due to his obesity. I almost cried laughing. But the reality of it, is that he is a liability on the road. If you run 24 minutes for 1.5 miles...you'd think, just maybe, that you should move on to another career field. Now we are changing the PT standards, and the guys who failed it last time, still continue to stay on the departments. What are we doing here?

[inveich]

Just my 2 cents, I active army, but my uncle told me that an officer in his department was killed because he was overweight and didnt look professional to the guy that killed him. The guy apparently checked out LEO's in front of a store that was frequesnted and would walk past them and look at their build, uniform, etc and he picked the overweight guy and whacked him. His reasoning was he was the least professional of them all. Thats something to think about, regular people will look at LEO's and expect a degree of proffessionalism, ie uniform appearence, weight, etc and they make their own minds up.......plus, if your overweight you probably can't catch a fleeing person on foot....but, then again, that same department hired a guy with a prostetic leg, put him on bike patrol, and the guy cought a fleeing drug dealer on foot, both of them were on foot, he left his bike behind, he climbed fences, jumped garbage cans........its all in your appearence.

[DACP]

Don’t get me wrong, I am all for a standard of professional appearance, I also understand that there is a little latitude when it comes to that stuff. I realy do not care what some ones weight is and if there belly hangs out a bit, so long as they can perform the job that is all that matters to me. The issue that I have with the PAT is that about 85% of the DA Guards were hired solely based on there disability rating from the VA and every one was happy with the way they did there job now years later for some reason they want to enact a PAT to ensure they can perform there job, why? This would be like the Light House for the Blind hiring some one who is blind then telling them sorry have to let you go, you can not read the signs on the wall, every organization under the sun would be screaming foul over that. DA Police do not get any kind of LE pay, no hazardous duty pay, just the regular old GS what ever pay, the same as any other GS worker, yet the standard is way higher. No one will argue that a DA Fire fighter has a strenuous job, with many hazards that require a level of fitness, same with the EMS workers, yet none of them are required to perform any type of PAT. If there must be a PAT then it needs to reflect for age, and the disabilities that officers have that got them the job in the first place. The regulation over all sucks, it is not just about a PAT, which is only one small part of the whole picture, but more about the very core of the job preformed. And sure I could go some where else and get a job, but I love doing the job that I do and continuing the service to the Army that I started years ago when I enlisted, which is more then likely the same reason that many of the Officers do what they do.

[B#63]

the pat is a small part of ar 190-56. the bigger items are the credenials, given the power of statutory arrest, authority to carry ccw to and from work, and recognized as federal leo's, since we do the job of a LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER.

[DACP]

the pat is a small part of ar 190-56. the bigger items are the credenials, given the power of statutory arrest, authority to carry ccw to and from work, and recognized as federal leo's, since we do the job of a LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER.

Yah but until federal law is changed we are hosed on many of those things. I still find it funny that some how some way the Pentagon police have full power and all that other goody goody stuff, but they are unable to do it for the DACP.