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  • Dod Has Arrest Powers!

    Woofdog:
    Dod Has Arrest Powers! You Wanted Someone To Cite The Article?!? Well It Is!! My Creds Indicate I Am "certified As A Police Officer Under The Opm 083 Series As A Police Officer And Has Been Appointed Under Title 5, Us Code A Law Enforcement Officer For The Us Government And Is Authorized In Accordance With Title 10 Us Section 1585, Public Statutes 85.577 To Carry Firearms." It Also States That "this Official May Make Arrests, Searches And Seizures And Enforce The Law In Accordance With Titles 10 And 18 Of The Us Code............"

    By The Way, My "j" Is In The State Of Maryland, The State Of Virginia And The District Of Columbia. I Work For The Naval District Of Washington Regional Police Department.

  • #2
    Originally posted by stonepolice
    Woofdog:
    Dod Has Arrest Powers! You Wanted Someone To Cite The Article?!? Well It Is!! My Creds Indicate I Am "certified As A Police Officer Under The Opm 083 Series As A Police Officer And Has Been Appointed Under Title 5, Us Code A Law Enforcement Officer For The Us Government And Is Authorized In Accordance With Title 10 Us Section 1585, Public Statutes 85.577 To Carry Firearms." It Also States That "this Official May Make Arrests, Searches And Seizures And Enforce The Law In Accordance With Titles 10 And 18 Of The Us Code............"

    By The Way, My "j" Is In The State Of Maryland, The State Of Virginia And The District Of Columbia. I Work For The Naval District Of Washington Regional Police Department.

    Here we go again..Guess what, read the MAA and military investigator cards that were issued at the regional level and they read the same. Title 10 is what gives the CO the authority for you to be armed. Title 5 is what authorizes OPM to allow DoD to appoint you.


    What sort of crap has Field Marshal Admiral General 3rd Class Dougherty been feeding you guys at the WNY? Your limited to the bases you work at.


    PS, Is Stanley Johnson still your official union rep? Also is that lazy bum Diaz there at WNY?
    I don't answer recruitment messages....

    Comment


    • #3
      Wishful thinking - again.

      DoD civilian police and military police do NOT currently have statutory powers of arrest, and are not covered under the Law Enforcement Officer Safety Act (LEOSA) to carry a concealed firearm nationwide.

      DoD civilian police and military police are also NOT authorized to carry off duty, per DoD policy, unless they have a state CCW permit (same as any other law abiding citizen).

      It doesn't matter what their creds may or may not say. Creds do not convey statutory powers of arrest, and neither do court decisions.

      The only way to have statutory powers of arrest is to have a state or federal statute passed by the legislative branch, and signed by the executive (a STATUTE of law) authorizing a sworn officer to make arrests and serve warrants.

      No statute of law = no statutory powers of arrest = no LEOSA coverage.

      Maybe one day. But not now.
      Politically Correct? No.

      Truthful? Yes!

      Comment


      • #4
        Tell you what. I am a city cop, currently assingned to a multijurisdictional narcotics team. I was an MP for 6 years active duty, and I can say for sure that if I ever had an MP or DOD cop throw credentials at me, and were carrying a firearm, I would take the firearm and get ahold of the prosecutor to see if we were bringing charges. First off, there is no reason for MP's or DOD to carry firearms off duty. All military posts are closed as far as I know. So they don't deal with anyone other than military and military offiliated personnel. They have no business carrying a firearm off base and trying to throw creds with no authority. In the long run it is just going to get them or someone else in trouble. Those credentials are issued by the post commander. Which if I am remembering correctly means, those creds mean nothing once the officer steps off post. When I was an MP, we would make fun of the few MP's who would carry a badge. The reason is because the badge is worthless!!! The DOD badge is essentially the same, worthless, except on that post.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by jayt_1923
          Tell you what. I am a city cop, currently assingned to a multijurisdictional narcotics team. I was an MP for 6 years active duty, and I can say for sure that if I ever had an MP or DOD cop throw credentials at me, and were carrying a firearm, I would take the firearm and get ahold of the prosecutor to see if we were bringing charges. First off, there is no reason for MP's or DOD to carry firearms off duty. All military posts are closed as far as I know. So they don't deal with anyone other than military and military offiliated personnel. They have no business carrying a firearm off base and trying to throw creds with no authority. In the long run it is just going to get them or someone else in trouble. Those credentials are issued by the post commander. Which if I am remembering correctly means, those creds mean nothing once the officer steps off post. When I was an MP, we would make fun of the few MP's who would carry a badge. The reason is because the badge is worthless!!! The DOD badge is essentially the same, worthless, except on that post.
          I was an Active Duty MP for 8 years......and I would NEVER write DA/DON/DAF (not such thing as DOD there slick) a cite or jam them up unless I absolutely had to.....but that's just me......

          You never bump into ****ed off GIs or spouses pn/off post that you hooked up...? I did a couple of times......not a fun thing to experience....

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by jayt_1923
            Tell you what. I am a city cop, currently assingned to a multijurisdictional narcotics team. I was an MP for 6 years active duty, and I can say for sure that if I ever had an MP or DOD cop throw credentials at me, and were carrying a firearm, I would take the firearm and get ahold of the prosecutor to see if we were bringing charges. First off, there is no reason for MP's or DOD to carry firearms off duty. All military posts are closed as far as I know. So they don't deal with anyone other than military and military offiliated personnel. They have no business carrying a firearm off base and trying to throw creds with no authority. In the long run it is just going to get them or someone else in trouble. Those credentials are issued by the post commander. Which if I am remembering correctly means, those creds mean nothing once the officer steps off post. When I was an MP, we would make fun of the few MP's who would carry a badge. The reason is because the badge is worthless!!! The DOD badge is essentially the same, worthless, except on that post.
            Hum, you are going to catch heat for that one.

            Ok, DOD, which is now DON, DA, etc are Police Officers. So do you treat Amtrak Police, College Campus Police, Park Rangers, etc the same way? Cops are cops, plain and simple. "DOD" Cops are cop, nothing more to say about that. It's quite obvious you lost something by becoming a LEO, if you are, but to say you would actually write/arrest/do whatever to a Dept of Navy, Depat of Army, Air Force Police Officers...all I will say is watch your back, I feel sorry for your co-workers.

            Bottom line is, DOD, MP's only have arrest authority while working at their post. When I worked for the DON, yes there were a few MA's that carried those little shiny badges around while "off", but they were dealt with by their chain of command, we had nothing to do with them, nor did they work the streets/patrol with us.

            Did we carry off-duty, you bet we did and we were covered. The Naval Dist. of Washington is quite different then most other bases, therefore most bases now, the CIVILIAN DOD cops cannot carry off-duty, until they update the LESOA in a few months, which then they will be covered to carry off-duty.

            There are still a few bases that are open. The one I just left in SC, was an open base, we "arrested" civilians for anything from traffic accidents, warrants, etc. Yes we did turn them over to the local Police, but we still placed them under Arrest, filled out an Arrest Report Last time I checked, the base is still open and they are turning the housing into "open housing"...meaning Civilians will be living on the Base.

            Jayt...just a suggestion, you may want to do a reality check into your career. Whether you take it or not, I could care less, but obviously you have something against DOD Civilian police. They are Cops, no different then you, just their pay check is signed differenty and I am sure they would back you in a second if you were getting the snot kicked out of you...best of luck.
            "An excuse is worse and more terrible than a lie, for an excuse is a lie guarded."

            Comment


            • #7
              I don't need to watch my back. And to tell you the truth, that is a pretty bold statement. I am expressing my opinion, which I am entitled too. Personally, I could care less what you think of my opinion. All I can tell you is that in my state, you don't have any authority, by state or federal law off the instalation you work. I take offense when you say that I need to watch my back. Buddy I watch my back everyday at work, being undercover. No need to make comments like that. That is pretty disrespectful.

              Comment


              • #8
                i also work on an open post and 95 % of my contacts are civilian and processesed through the local DA's office, not the post or fed. mag. courts.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by jayt_1923
                  I don't need to watch my back. And to tell you the truth, that is a pretty bold statement. I am expressing my opinion, which I am entitled too. Personally, I could care less what you think of my opinion. All I can tell you is that in my state, you don't have any authority, by state or federal law off the instalation you work. I take offense when you say that I need to watch my back. Buddy I watch my back everyday at work, being undercover. No need to make comments like that. That is pretty disrespectful.
                  I didn't see any disrepect in Irish's comments. He was telling you as it factually is and adding that any of these MPs or DOD cops that you'd be so quick to hook up would back you up in a heartbeat. Either way, a cop is a cop. Now I don't know how many active federal military installations there are in Michigan, but it looks to me like he's trying to tell you something you don't know.
                  "First of all, then we have to say the American public overwhelmingly voted for socialism when they elected President Obama." - Al Sharpton, March 21, 2010

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    MP back me up? Yeah, right!

                    Hopefully the MP that would back me up actually knows something about law enforcement. Many MP's don't, since the Army trains their MP's as light mounted infantry instead of law enforcement. The Marines are also getting away from installation LE. The Air Force SP/SF and Navy MAA's focus on base and shipboard security.

                    In Army boot camp, OBC and MPOA, they spend a lousy 2 weeks on LE - the majority of training deals with "field support" and field combat tactics.

                    In garrison, MP units are rotated in and out of installation LE assignments. An MP company may spend six months in LE, then a year or more doing other soldiering functions.

                    An MP NCO or officer could realistically serve a whole career without even once serving in an LE tour!!!!!!!

                    Civilian DoD cops on military bases are also more security than LE oriented. Their training is short compared to a municipal or state LEO, and they have limited jurisdiction. They do not have power of arrest, with the exception of 2 or 3 organizations in the Capital area, and they can't legally carry off duty.

                    No statute = no statutory powers of arrest = no LEOSA coverage.
                    Politically Correct? No.

                    Truthful? Yes!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I can say that I was an MP and am now a civilian LEO. I know that as an MP, I didn't know what the heck I was doing when it came to some basic law enforcement type procedures. And I was assinged to a LEO unit for almost 2 years while I was an MP. I thought at the time that I did have arrest authority, but I later found out I didn't. The main thing that distinguishes a sworn officer from an MP is that you are sworn by a municipality. Meaning you have the authority to carry off duty by the power of that municipality or state or county agency. I carry my backup off duty, and I have to qualify with it through our agency and state standards. My department, or municipality assumes all liability for me using my weapon off duty, should I have to do that. As an MP or DOD officer, you don't take you duty weapon when you finish shift. I am pretty sure that whatever weapon these MP's or DOD cops are carrying off duty isn't qualified with. So when they get into a situation where they have to fire this weapon, they are screwed. Some of you guys may think I am just a jerk that is trying to hem someone up, well like I said you are intitled to your opinion. In my eyes I am saving you a major law suit, when you use this unauthorized firearm that you haven't qualified with, to shoot someone. I am not saying that DOD officers or MP's are not professionals, or that they are not real "cops" per say. But I know for a fact that the training is not to the same standard, being that I was an MP and worked next to DOA officers.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Well I know on the AF side we are still doing Law Enforce an will continue to do so. And we have a 3 fold Mission Law Enforcement, Air Base Defense and Resource Protection. And to a degree they all coincide with one another. I train with the local departments when the oppurtunity presents itself. And according to the CPC I am a peace officer in Ca.
                        Professionalism always, courtesy until it's time not to be.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by jayt_1923
                          I can say that I was an MP and am now a civilian LEO. I know that as an MP, I didn't know what the heck I was doing when it came to some basic law enforcement type procedures. And I was assinged to a LEO unit for almost 2 years while I was an MP. I thought at the time that I did have arrest authority, but I later found out I didn't. The main thing that distinguishes a sworn officer from an MP is that you are sworn by a municipality. Meaning you have the authority to carry off duty by the power of that municipality or state or county agency. I carry my backup off duty, and I have to qualify with it through our agency and state standards. My department, or municipality assumes all liability for me using my weapon off duty, should I have to do that. As an MP or DOD officer, you don't take you duty weapon when you finish shift. I am pretty sure that whatever weapon these MP's or DOD cops are carrying off duty isn't qualified with. So when they get into a situation where they have to fire this weapon, they are screwed. Some of you guys may think I am just a jerk that is trying to hem someone up, well like I said you are intitled to your opinion. In my eyes I am saving you a major law suit, when you use this unauthorized firearm that you haven't qualified with, to shoot someone. I am not saying that DOD officers or MP's are not professionals, or that they are not real "cops" per say. But I know for a fact that the training is not to the same standard, being that I was an MP and worked next to DOA officers.
                          1. Did you ever do anything to make yourself a better MP LEO wise....? Ask to attend training.....whether it be military or civilian trianing...? I know for a fact that I tried to go to everything I could go to training wise....plus make sure all my soldiers had the chance to go if they wanted.... Same thing when I became a civilian LEO....I went to all the training I can get my hands on....

                          2. What if the DA/DON/DA LEO presents not only his badge/ID....but has a CCW...? You going to try to jam him up just because he's not a LEO in your book...?

                          3. DA is coming up with new training.....not sure how good it will be....but it's got to better than what they are doing now....that going to make you feel more warm and fuzzy towards them...?

                          Still amazes me that folks that were in the military (and some still in the reserves) are so bitter with their active duty counterparts or civilians that work as LEOs for the miltitary that they would want to jam them up if given the chance.....

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Woofdog
                            MP back me up? Yeah, right!

                            Hopefully the MP that would back me up actually knows something about law enforcement. Many MP's don't, since the Army trains their MP's as light mounted infantry instead of law enforcement. The Marines are also getting away from installation LE. The Air Force SP/SF and Navy MAA's focus on base and shipboard security.

                            In Army boot camp, OBC and MPOA, they spend a lousy 2 weeks on LE - the majority of training deals with "field support" and field combat tactics.

                            In garrison, MP units are rotated in and out of installation LE assignments. An MP company may spend six months in LE, then a year or more doing other soldiering functions.

                            An MP NCO or officer could realistically serve a whole career without even once serving in an LE tour!!!!!!!

                            Civilian DoD cops on military bases are also more security than LE oriented. Their training is short compared to a municipal or state LEO, and they have limited jurisdiction. They do not have power of arrest, with the exception of 2 or 3 organizations in the Capital area, and they can't legally carry off duty.

                            No statute = no statutory powers of arrest = no LEOSA coverage.

                            when did you go through army mp school ??? i was at ft leonard wood mo in 2002 and even after 9-11 are focus was LE so what do you mean i didnt go to iraq a lot of my company didnt go to iraq we were on base doin LE jobs

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I agree... I was in the right places at the right time and missed an Iraq deployment. Instead I went to Ft. McNair, DC where, at the time, it was strictly garrison. Things changed a year or so ago and now those units are becoming CBT SPT elements, the Ft. Myer MP company is now part of the H Co. Old Guard and they are deploying in CBT SPT roles.

                              Most (not all) of the garrison law enforcement is now taken care of by DA (civilian) police.

                              While I was there I would say that a large percentage of contacts I had was with the civilian population, even under FPCON C. The post that had been there for 200+ years had a credit union, beauty shop, post office, and swimming pool that was open to the general public, whether they had any military or DOD affiliation at all. This post sits in the heart of SW DC. As long as they were willing to go through a vehicle inspection, they were welcome.

                              There was even an SOP that dealt with going off-post to the immediate surrounding area to stop a violent felony, I can't remember the wording but it basically stated that if you did so you were acting as a private citizen and not on behalf of the Army. I remember working the main gain one night and witnessing a shooting across the street that turned into a homicide, my partner had to go back to DC last year to testify to the grand jury. This is common for us as civilian LE, but it shows that it also happens in military LE.

                              I can see the frustration in jayt_1923's posts, I shared the same frustration of wanting to do law enforcement as we know it as civilians but being thwarted around every corner by command, policy and tradition. However, I know that each post is a different set of rules and just because you or I didn't experience doing "real" LE doesn't mean that at another post they don't. I remember there was a SPC at Myer that used to routinely go off post to SR 51 (I think) and back up VSP and they appreciated it because they trusted him, and the desk never had a problem with him doing it.

                              I am able to look at our role as MP's better now (maybe more maturity and I do civilian LE so I got it out of my system) and can step back and see what a unique experience it is. Everyone knows the saying, "Combat tested cops." MP's may not be "cops" as we see it in the civilian world, but for the intent and purpose of the Army, we are. I now appreciate that role much more and realize that the same experience exist in the civilian world whether it's municipal v. campus, railroad, hospital etc. Everyone has their role and works for the same purpose.

                              I do think it's unfair to be so harsh as to say "I can say for sure that if I ever had an MP or DOD cop throw credentials at me, and were carrying a firearm, I would take the firearm and get a hold of the prosecutor to see if we were bringing charges." -jayt_1923 I think there are probably better ways to handle that situation based on what exactly the situation is. But like he said, it's just my opinion and I'm not knocking anyone for theirs.

                              Also, I was at Ft. Lost in the Woods in 2001 and I remember very clearly trying to keep my eyes open, popping those darn vitamin C pills from the shopette as we sat through our garrison training, we had very very minimal CBT SPT training, in fact I think it was just phase 5 FTX.

                              I kind of digressed, but I guess the point I'm trying to make is, no one is an authority on what degree each post uses it's MP's as law enforcement or to what extent their trained. No one should make such a broad generalization on their limited experiences. Much respect for all military "police", it's a rough job fitting in that mold, one day your stopping cars for stop sign violations and the next your on a patrol through Baghdad, nowhere else in LE do you get that experience (except maybe Detroit, J/K) and have to have such a broad range of skill and knowledge.

                              Ok, never mind, I don't even know what my point is anymore, but I typed too much to delete it.

                              Comment

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